Prostasia shud support DP

I’m thinking that Prostasia actually might have a point about this whole idea of looking at whether fake cp reduces crime. I think prostasia could gain support for advocating for the use of the death penalty in some cases.

I propose Prostasia advocates for the use of the death penalty in cases that involve sex trafficking, that involve the rape of children for the purpose of producing CP. The evidence surrounding DP effect on crime is questionable. But I genuinely believe you will get more donations if you support the death penalty.

Not the donors we want, thanks.

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Because this post is worded, like a devil’s bargain. Political decisions should be based on merit, not bribery. Heck, this is the type of snake oil language that is akin to giving out free burgers for alleged CCP virus vaccines.

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We’re a PREVENTION organization. Our goal is to stop CSA before there is a crime and/or a victim.

A prevention org advocating for the death penalty is kinda like holding a press conference about losing a game before you’ve played it.

The death penalty plays heavily into the idea that people are their crimes, that people are monsters. No one is a monster, even if they have done monstrous things. We support harm reduction, restorative justice, rehabilitation, community, education, and support. This also benefits survivors, btw. Playing into the monster narrative steals survivor voices, not everyone wants their abuser dead and it can be extremely traumatizing to see that happen when it wasn’t what you, the actual victim, wanted and needed to feel better afterwards. Many survivors would prefer to move on, rather than being drawn into lengthy legal entanglements.

Your bewilderment probably has a lot to do with you not being able to see humans as humans. The death penalty is kinda like selective human rights…which is not how human rights work. They’re for everyone or no one because you don’t get to pick and choose who is human enough for you.

Most other child protection orgs operate with false numbers, moral panic, and emotional reactions instead of leading with science, evidence, and experts (how Prostasia operates). We’re not like other orgs on purpose. We’d like to bring about real prevention and end CSA, we’re not a vanity project like the bigger orgs with huge commercial and law enforcement backing. We have actual values and we stand by them, even if it means we don’t get money from some people.

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Perfect answer!:clap:t3::clap:t3::clap:t3:

Hm, curious on your opinion, even if it’s a morbid question. Would you do the same thing to minors who hurt other minors in the same way? Reason why is that it’s not solely adults doing this, teenagers and even younger can abuse other children such the child from Child of Rage (I believe she was around 6-8 when she was doing it.)

Would you be ok with inflicting the same punishment to them?

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What goes around, comes around. The death penalty merely makes excuses for murder. Also, in reality, many of those killed end up being either innocent, or guilty of something lesser. And in the US, racial discrimination makes the whole thing a revolting farce.

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So, if I’m understanding correctly, older teens are fine to you, that I get but one part I’m confused on and want further clarification on. You also said:

Anyone who abuses children, even children who commit very serious offenses should be lined up against the wall.

So if an 8 year old sexually abused a 3 year old, you would be ok with mutilating their genitals and killing them?

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You are deliberately missing my point dude.

I’m not deliberately missing your point, I’m asking questions to better understand your position. Sorry if it comes off that way, but that’s the honest truth.

Anyway…

Two further questions.

  1. What if the 45 year old was the victim of similar abuse when they were a child themselves? What if this person had mental issues? Would that change anything?

  2. What if the child in question wasn’t abused and still did it? For example, certain children may become abusive towards others and some children may even become murderers, despite being raised in a non-abusive household/environment.

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So all the negatives of being an adult, but none of the positives?

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Your enemy does not see himself/herself as a villain, they usually just have different goals. Keeping that in mind can help you come to an agreement with him/her.

But, I do think some people are monsters. Sociopaths have no empathy and don’t care who or what gets hurt if they decide to experiment. I do believe there are some evil people in the world. Charles Manson, for example. I will pass on the most obvious as someone will quote Godwin’s law.

You have an incredible taste for blood, but aren’t willing to put yourself in harm’s way to find more “peaceful” alternatives (like stripping people of their freewill because they’re not you, you’d only agree to it when you’re sure it’s safe)… In another time and place, people like that would be…

For a quick example, what is separating you being willing to experiment on an unwilling person as a guinea pig and a scientist being willing to conduct experiments on an unwilling person as a guinea pig? Both see their subjects as subhuman, both see their experiments for the “greater good” and… Well, Nazi Germany did it, North Korea does it, both are blatantly violating human rights and you want to do it too. Like the people involved, you’re also willing to put others in danger but not yourself. What’s the difference between you and them, besides it being ok when you do it?

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The fact that I can draw parallels between you and people who committed war crimes say otherwise.

No, you just want to violate human rights via stripping people of their free will and turning them into lab rats, so much better, right?

An abuse victim might recover, what you’re suggesting can’t. Oh yeah, abusers aren’t ok with being abused themselves, much like how you’re ok with brainwashing others/killing others but making exceptions for yourself.

Like the person with the immense bloodlust that is advocating for violating human rights and free will, but is conveniently leaving themselves out of it?

Yeah, amazing that you’re willing to do it as long as it doesn’t personally affect you. People who violate human rights are seldom willing to have their rights violated, but I guess it’s ok because it’s you doing it this time. Everyone else who did it was evil, but you’re the one exception where it’s acceptable, right?

Everyone is willing to crack a few eggs to make progress, but are against themselves being one of those eggs.

You’re showing a lot of the same traits that allowed people to commit horrible actions throughout history, but making exceptions for yourself. Just own it instead of trying to make excuses.

I’m not even necessarily opposed to the DP (I have mixed feelings tbh), but at the same time, I’m definitely against brainwashing people like you are. And if I were to be ok with brainwashing like you are, it’s only fair I be a test subject for it, as it might help get a good baseline for “desirable thoughts” along with me having enough empathy/bravery to subject myself to such things.

“Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself.” - Confucius

“Do unto others as you would have done unto you” - Jesus

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Stopped reading right there.

While I’d be happy to agree with you on things like not criminalizing fiction or fantasy in the form of loli/shota, text-based stories, or child sex dolls, your rhetoric is very unnerving and it makes it hard for me to take you in good faith when @prostasia is a HUMANIST CSA PREVENTION AND RESEARCH charity!!

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Neither, ever.

Oh, you really bought the whole “take back control” crap. Hate to break it to you, but the reality is we gave away our control.

Demonstrably untrue:

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I’m a supporter of justice, not revenge.

Justice being helping the victim recover, supporting them, and preventing the crime in the first place.
Justice also means ensuring potential offenders never feel the need to act.
Justice means making sure I never become someone who abuses.

The death penalty is a worthless act of revenge.

I would not support my abusers getting the death penalty. It would not improve my life in any way.
The death penalty creates FEAR of punishment and uses that to deter actions. I don’t want anyone to live in fear. I don’t want FEAR to be the only reason actions are not taken.

I do not even think they deserve it. In a way I think they deserve better, too. I wish they had never gotten to the point where they turned to hurting me. I wish they’d gotten the help they needed, and that society was open and free in these discussions.

That would have been true justice.

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Actually, so few people are executed, that most criminals don’t worry about the possibility of death. And, since the executions are hidden from the public, it becomes less real to most people.