It’s funny that people don’t see the hypocrisy of someone wanting to be moralistic while they want to kill and / or torture other people. I mean, I would be funny if wasnt sad.
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I oppose torture and rape as penalties but I support the death penalty. Death penalty should be applied to all rapists with 100% proof of guilt.
Believe that fear of death is not a decisive factor that prevents a pedophile from raping. A person who is willing to rape a child is aware that if he is caught his life is over. Anyway, a pedophile who rapes (and is not totally insane) would only do that if he were to find absolutely no other alternative to continue living. In other words, his choice to rape is already an all-or-nothing initiative. Thats also why I believe that fake porn is a valid option because it gives an alternative to these people.
In addition, I think that the death penalty for rape (for both child and adult rape) would WORSE the situation, because the rapist would probably kill the victim later to increase the chances of him not being caught.
I think that the death penalty for rape (for both child and adult rape) would WORSE the situation, because the rapist would probably kill the victim later to increase the chances of him not being caught.
Seems like a valid concern? I think so yes? Rape is less defensible than murder even if both are horrible crimes, as it’s possible to commit murder in a heat of moment. Someone robs your store but you shoot too late or too quickly! That was convicted of second degree murder in Canada! It’s true it’s wrong but it is not unexpected that something like this can happen. The store owner must pay a price but it is very understandable why he did what he did. But no excuse for rape, none. Sometimes a man must kill, but he may never rape. If you are aware, Geneva conventions outlawed rape as punishment but not executions. Because rape is never excusable, but a man must sometimes take a life. This is why I cannot support mandatory execution for murder.
But you bring up valid point that they might kill their victim if we have mandatory executions for rapists but not for murder. Solution is mandatory death penalty for those who murder the person they raped. If rapist sentenced to death, allow rape victim to choose to reduce sentence of the rapist to a life sentence? This might be a proper policy.
For alternatives, this organization and similar ones have yet to prove these outlets reduce offense against children. I support Canadian legislation that Ageplay must be prohibited, as is all deviant pornography. Until you prove me otherwise that these things are not harmful. Maybe your organization is the one to change my mind. Maybe not. More porn is unlikely to solve the problem. You can’t give alcohol to solve the issue of depression in Canada or United States or anywhere.
Better idea: Let the child molester get a taste of his own medicine. He can be good room mates with Big Bubba. He will finally know what it’s like to be the vulnerable one.
By permitting rape of anyone, it makes people think that rape is not such a heinous crime. To make it clear rape is absolutely heinous evil crime, it must never be permitted, even if carried out against rapists. By never permitting rape even against rapists, we make it clear rape has no value or excuse in this world. When we say someone deserves rape, it could lead to very bad place where we start questioning rape victims as to whether they deserve it no no one deserves it! The solution to rapists is execution death penalty with possibility of commuting to life imprisonment if victim requests.
Rape has no place in the justice system anywhere I am 100% sure.
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Executions would be cheaper for rapists. Would be a deterrent too.
In the modern US, executions are actually more expensive than life imprisonment.
It’s because of endless appeals process that makes it expensive. Ending all death penalty appeals would go a long way to affordable executions. Lets start with that.
You realize those are to allow for the chance that the person in question is not guilty, you know? This isn’t Justice Bao’s fast-tracked executions from ancient China.
We can require 100% guilt for the crime, than sentence them to death with no chance of appeal. For example, if a rape kit determined a 10 year old has been raped with DNA evidence, that is 100% chance of guilt. I believe we an sentence the perpetrator to death without risking putting an innocent man to death.
Sadly, DNA evidence tends to be flawed:
While I could completely understand the notion behind the death penalty in a perfect legal system, we sadly don’t have such one, and most likely we will never have it.
And when it comes to crimes like rape, that rarely have any tangible evidence, it’s especially dangerous for such practice not to result in harm of people who have been found guilty, while they are innocent. It’s usually just testimonies and blind trust that determines the guilt in such situations, this is why so many false allegations thrown against people are usually about rape.
And there is always a possibility of you getting framed. Imagine yourself finding out some disturbing informations for example, about the government officials participating in some child sex trafficking operation. Do you think that people with such power wouldn’t try to discredit you, framing you as a pedophile so no one is willing to come into your defence, throwing CSEM materials onto your computer, notifying the authorities about it to make a legal case against you and effectively use the death penalty to eliminate the main witness of their crimes? Situations similar to these do happen, not every government is perfect and composed only out of good, moral and virtuous individuals, and bad laws can be exploited by evil people for their own gain.
I upvoted that?? Must’ve been a misclick.
I have no respect for barbarism, especially not like this.
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very very very based
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While @prostasia has embraced non-carceral approaches to CSA prevention, total and complete abolition of the penal system surrounding CSA and CSAM offenses is NOT a viable, nor functioning strategy. It is also not one that I’ve seen them embrace or suggest, given the fact that they’ve developed tools for the detection and reporting of CSAM to law enforcement, as well as actively reported CSAM sharing communities and forums.
Evidence does show that criminal prohibitions on CSA and CSAM are effective at reducing the risk of them occurring, though in many areas where CSAM was legal, we did see a drop in contact CSA offenses, which implies an effect that pornography consumption may have at the population level, and such effects are currently being studied with the help of Prostasia and others.
Studies from the likes of Professor Milton Diamond, in addition to crime statistics from Japan and Denmark (where virtual child porn is legal) are indeed promising, though, more research is always welcome.
If virtual child pornography and child sex dolls can bring about the prevention effects we saw with CSAM in places like the Czech Republic, then SIMULATED/VIRTUAL materials should be legal.
However, such crimes where a child is involved are valid and reflect the heinous nature of offenses. There is a victim with CSA and CSAM.
Do I believe the offenses can go overboard? Yes, specifically in the context of youths sexting one another.
Do I believe some punishments are irrational and cruel? Yes. I think incarceration should be about rehabilitation and education, not stringing up people and torturing them for all to see because you believe doing so will highlight the ‘goodness’ or ‘virtuous’ aspects of law enforcement.
But abolition of established criminal offenses in the realm of child-adult sex is NOT a viable strategy.
Molestation, rape, production and possession of CSAM, etc. are all valid crimes because of the harm they cause the child victims.
This is not a matter up for debate.
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Yes, 100%.
However, one also has to look at the aftermath of any one of these crimes coming to light.
As @terminus posted in a seperate thread, what happens to the exposed offender can have a detrimental effect on those offended also. So there should be consideration to them as well during the criminal justice process.
I would love to know the true extent of post-arrest “impairment” (for want of a better word) that afflicts victims/survivors of sexual crimes. There would be further/different aspects where children have been involved in abuse used in CSAM that we rarely, if ever, get to hear about (certainly not via MSM anyway). Which is perhaps just as well for them.
I feel a bit guilty about using the Samantha Geimer link to illustrate a point as she is a person who should be respected as a human-being and not just the subject of a salacious story. However, other victims of sexual abuse (Natascha Kampusch & Chrissie Hynde for instance) also feel their own lives and experiences have been “overwritten” by other, unaffected, people’s desire to persecute their assailants.
The point is, when people appear ostensibly outraged and feel the need to protest “think of the children!” They’re very rarely actually thinking of the children.
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In my honest opinion I am not a supporter of these overly long sentences associated with CSAM espescially in cases where the offender was not part of a group, or shared anything.
It’s not going to lower CSAM cases and we have statistics for it. All you really need to do is compare how many people were being charged for CSAM in the USA vs. Nordic countries. Adjust for difference in population and voila.
Everybody knows that a bigger sentence is not going to reduce crimes especially in a field where most offenders do not strategically plan, but rather just do it for various reasons be it pschological problems, idiocy, or just a complete disconnect with society. None of these issues is being adressed with a higher sentence.
When someone becomes a first time offender by accessing CSAM then the punishment should be light, but combined with a therapy. Sentences are about rehabilitation and not about punishment, or vengence. So many people don’t understand this. I know a lot of people who hate nordic countries like sweden, finland because they have such light punishments. Have you seen their prisons? They look gorgeous and prisoners get to study, attend courses and even get some private time with VR. It works and they have 2/3 less re-offenders than the USA.
There is a great video about a murderer in finland who is in jail and he seems very happy. He attends courses on A.I. and even opened up his own business from within prison which is legal.
Everyone is human and helping those who failed is the main goal of a punishment. CSAM is the type of crime where punishment should focus heavily on rehabilitating the offender, because that is going to prevent more of these cases in the long run. Instead of them dwelling deeper and deeper into this rabbit hole they can be caught early and helped, because a long sentence is going to guarantee one thing and it’s not that people won’t commit them, but that they will be better prepared.
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