The far-right, religious evangelical fundamentalists sex fascists are spreading harmful misinformation against Prostasia. They say that Prostasia is pro-pedophilia organization. They claim that Prostasia is trying to remove the child-safety laws.
They run a website, called www.prostasia.info and this site is full of sh*t. They are supported by hypocritical organizations like NCOSE, NCMEC, Exodus Cry, Fight The New Drug, Your Brain On Porn, Till Christ Returns, etc… The user “Lt. Anna” said that sex work is >>>NOT<<< work, which mean they are far-right sex fascists.
They want to ruin the reputation of Prostasia, so people can hate Prostasia. Also, on Facebook there are group that claim Prostasia is pro-pedophilia organization. If the owners of Prostasia can take legal actions, do it! These people are dangerous for the future of human rights, rights of children, women’s rights, LGBT rights, immigrants’ rights. They are homophobes and xenophobes. They are racists probably. I think so, because big percent of the conservatives are against immigrants and black people.
I brought this up to @terminus. And yes, I do believe taking action against those on Twitter by reporting them for harassment and false info, per Twitter rules, would be helpful.
Literally everything cited in the website mentioned is either wrong or was seen about ages ago, such as the “Delinquent Charity” status and the fiasco with “Guy”, the sex offender, who is involved with NARSOL and was never officially involved with the Foundation, only writing a piece on the blog, if my memory serves correctly.
Or, you can simply do nothing in particular. With the exception of addressing the misinformation on the main page of Prostasia that is.
The reality is, such efforts only give Protasia more publicity, and don’t change much except that.
Most people might see such misinformation, will react emotionally to it for a while, and go get busy with their life, eventually forgetting about the existence of Prostasia.
Some would react negatively to Prostasia rhetoric and ideas upon discovering the site one way or another, these are the type of people who buy into such misinformation instantly with ease, because it appeals to their confirmation bias. Naturally, due to moral panic, there is a lot of such people, but it’s not like there is anything that can change their minds, so it’s pointless to care about them.
But the ones that tend to be rather rational and emotionally stable about these topics, will neither agree nor deny such accusations. Personally, it was the accusations thrown against Prostasia, back in 2020 that made me more interested in this organization, despite hearing about it for quite some time before.
I archived screenshots of those accusations, as well as someone’s thread debunking them in my folder for the future reference back then when I was still investigating other child protection organizations I could find.
It took me a couple of minutes to verify the information, to realize that the accusations are incorrect and somewhat manipulative. And there is nothing more validating of an organizations credibility than someone purposefully putting an effort to defame it and spread misinformation about it.
However, from what I can see, this “Ayden Férdeline”, assuming he really is the author of this site, and not some elaborate troll that is trying to use him as a disguise for himself has been persistently targeting Protasia with misinformation for a while now. I’m kind of curious about what are his motivation, since personally despite my initial scepticism towards Protasia, the contents of articles aren’t fraudulent or manipulative. They have a small political bias that was sort of repulsive initially, but the contents of the articles are well formulated and informative, without any deception.
None of the accusations that I’ve seen about Prostasia has ever tried to tackle the contents of the articles. Most of the attempts that I’ve seen was an effort to discredit this organization with guilt by association, which is simply cheap.
And he doesn’t look like a person with low levels of intelligence, he certainly has some skill and dedication, but that only makes me doubt his good intentions even more. I seriously wouldn’t be surprised to see him involved in some illegal activities involving sexual misconduct with minors, trying to create a perception of a pseudo-anti-paedophile that cares about children’s safety as a facade to hide his real practices and intentions. Although it’s only a speculation based on how many legitimate child predators have I’ve seen using such strategy. So the other explanation is that is simply strongly ideologically possessed, and that it clouds his ability to think rationally.
I’m afraid though that suing him might be used by him to claim victimhood and use that fact as ammunition to further his activity.
In general, I don’t really know any other way to deal with misinformation than just by giving the correct informations and explanations every time misinformation occurs. Not to convince people who spread them, but to simply make it easier for all the other people looking at such discussions to decide what is true and what isn’t.
Like for example in this thread:
I don’t really think it was a good response on the side of Jeremy, it looks like deflection of the accusations and isn’t informative in any way. It gives the sense of a person who has lost the debate and has been caught lying but doesn’t want to admit it.
Of course, it’s not true on a logical level. The initial accusation was that Jeremy works actively in EFF. It was refuted, by Jeremy claiming that he doesn’t work for EFF right now, which was the proper response considering the context was about something the EFF has done recently, and it’s a response that was accepted as truthful by the @EatPeriod. Yet despite that, this person used mirror argument claiming that Anna doesn’t lie, and it’s Jeremy’s tweet that consists out of half-truths, while the real situation is the opposite.
Sadly, such mirror argument does sound correct initially, which is why for an average observer Jeremy would look like the one that has loosed in this debate. And pointing it out would be very helpful to completely reverse this situation. Perhaps in such situation, the person responding to this response wouldn’t have his comment hidden as potentially offensive then.
Personally, in Jeremy’s place, I would try to slightly disassociate myself when receiving criticism regarding the activity of Prostasia, even on my personal account, and instead treat it as an opportunity to share more information and maybe interest onlookers into checking the articles for themselves. After all, there is no such thing as bad publicity, but it’s still important to learn how to use it.
PS: Michael45, please never try to play an activist for Prostasia, I told you already that this is an organization that deals with the matters of protecting children, not a MAP liberation club. Your mission doesn’t align with that of a Prostasia. Once again, I feel pretty confident saying that Prostasia doesn’t support any, absolutely any sexual interactions with minors. Unless you truly understand that belief, you cannot really identify yourself with this organization. You are definitely free to share your beliefs in here, regardless of how strongly flawed they are, but you cannot really claim to be associated with this organization in any way other than just having an account on it’s the forum.
Just as there are things that you and Prostasia agree on, there are things which you don’t agree on. And add to that the fact, that you have different reasons and motivations as to why you agree with this organization on certain topics.
When it comes to child sex dolls, your main focus is that you want MAPs to have a right to use such dolls simply for pleasure, and that is all. There is nothing wrong with such motivation, but Prostasias motivation is far more complex than just that simple reasoning.
Prostasia hopes that sex dolls will effectively result in a reduction of future sexual misconducts by providing an alternative outlet to people who could potentially cause such a situation in their lives. They, of course, also want such dolls to be legal on a principle of valuing peoples personal freedoms since all the research in connected areas indicates that they will not bring any harm, but ultimately, the reason why they decide to get the funding and spend that money to research the effects of such fantasy outlets directly has to do with them wanting to actually find out and prove what their effects are exactly.
And this research is extremely important for the purpose of increasing the effectiveness of the protection of children. Regardless of its outcome. For a very simple reason.
Right now, a lot of other child protection organizations, spend huge amounts of time, money and people, pursuing actions like campaigns to introduce laws prohibiting such outlets, prosecuting and hunting people for possessing exclusively fictional materials and hunting down perceived potential dangers while they might be only interested in the fantasy appeal of such themes, and have no intention to do anything to real minors, handling a lot of reports of people simply enjoying artistic productions and allowing such reports to come onto their cyber tip report systems, in a blind belief not based in any evidence of such decisions actually resulting in increasing the protection of underage individuals.
But seeing all the research that is connected with concepts like fictional works effects on human psychology and behaviour, the effects of pornography consumption on humans and in regards to sexual crime rates, reading journals about the reasoning of such outlets legality and reading philosophy papers regarding the ethics of their usage, as well as looking at the statistics of countries legalizing them in contrast to countries prohibiting them, everything points out to such outlets definitely and undeniably not causing an increase in sexual exploitation of minors and giving an ability to set a hypothesis of them actually helping, rather than just being neutral, to deal with this issue.
So, if the research shows positive or even neutral effects of those outlets, then all those organizations lose any ground on which they decide to continue the activities that I mentioned. This means that all those resources, money, time, people, will be redirected onto handling situations of actual abuse of children. Let’s assume that 10 of such organizations will learn about this research. That means that 10 organizations on this planet will now be more effective in dealing with real child predators than before.
With such research paper, that they could implement justified information in their cyber tip reporting systems, for people to not report fictional works, reducing the amount of spam that has to be verified by the workers of such system, which wastes their time and attention, and with that money, of such organizations, that could be otherwise spent dealing on the real danger.
And if the research shows the negative effects, then it will justify such organizations decisions. And even though it’s an extremely improbable outcome, it’s still a possibility.
But regardless of that, when it comes to the topic of protecting children, this research is a win-win situation.
Again, just because you have some agreements, doesn’t mean you can identify yourself with the organization. You, for example, have an agreement with religious extremists, that the prohibition of artistic works you don’t dislike is justified because they corrupt otherwise good people and make them into evil abusers (in your case, it’s bible turning people into religious zealots, and in their case, it’s the LGBT representation in movies, turning their children into homosexual deviants).
But I think we both would agree, that calling you “Religious” simply because you agree in some regards with religious people, is simply incorrect, and I doubt you would call yourself a religious person yourself too because of that.
My goals are completely different than the goals of Prostasia, but i can still support Prostasia, because, as i said, we have similar goals. Yes, i might have different motivations.
True. What else can i expect? Cold plastic dont have consciousness and can’t give you love. So, yes… the only thing i expect, is MAPS to gain empty pleasure, and nothing else.
While my hope is that dolls will lead to changes in social attitudes by social engineering caused by images. This is why i support the legalization of these dolls. Here is the bipartisan interest. Prostasia is interested in legalization, im interested in legalization too. But my hope about what will happen AFTER the legalization, is different from what Prostasia things will happen AFTER the legalization.
I know what will happen after the legalization, but im not going to tell it. It must be surprise.
This might happen.
What other organizations are doing, is harming the freedom, but doesnt help. Their actions wont help.
I will repeat it again. For me, it doesnt matter what will be legalized or banned. The only important thing to me, is the normalization and the acceptance of MAPS. If images (even fictional) can install new ideas in the heads of people, then i support full legalizations of fictional works.
No. These organizations are not interested in helping. They are interested in spreading myths and stereotypes to cause moral panic / fear mongering that will lead to donations and grants. Nothing more. This is what NCMEC, NCOSE, FTND, Exodus Cry, and all grassroots, and all NGOs that support the Nordic Model, are doing. Don’t be naive, please.
It doesnt matter what the research will show. The only thing that matter, is the source of money. If stereotypes, myths, fear mongering, and moral panic can give more money than the truth, then they will continue to do what they do now - making sex-restricting laws.
I support the prohibition of things that violate human rights. If religion dont violate human rights, then i would not want religion to be banned.
Yes, that is true, I never denied it. Like I said, this forum is open for discussion, and you can support Prostasia if you want to.
I genuinely don’t know if you are joking right now, or if you genuinely believe in such a ridiculous idea. Japan has allowed such images for over 60 years now, we had 2 generations living their entire lives with it being legal, and ever since they originated, the protections of minors only grew bigger and became stricter ever since.
Okay, at this point I have no doubts that you are simply a disingenuous troll.
This doesn’t change the fact that your ridiculous idea is still an inverse in the reality of what you did propose. If anything, it only furthers the support of your idea being completely incorrect.
Your behaviour and the ridiculous hypothesis that you spreading. This single theory of yours simply was so extremely absurd, that it completely broke any of my doubts and the benefit of the doubt that I had.
But sure, I can play this game, you can easily prove that you aren’t a troll, simply explain your rationale, how exactly this process should work, how you concluded such a concept can actually work outside of human imagination. You won’t be able to do it, so of course, you will deflect this proposition, but I will still give you a chance.
Explain how exactly, and in detail, dolls will lead to changes in social attitudes by social engineering caused by images, what will happen after the legalization, and how exactly “installing ideas” work
What is the process of “installing ideas”, how does it work, what kind of ideas you referred to, what would that do, what psychological processes you were referring to by this name, preferably give support from a scientific field about this concept.
What changes in social attitudes will be caused by dolls, why such changes will occur, why people simply not refuse them if they refuse them now, what psychological processes will cause such an effect, preferably give support from a scientific field about this concept.
How exactly images cause social engineering, what is social engineering, do you have any scientific resources confirming whatever process you understand by this name? What is the name of these psychological phenomenons that participate and enable the social engineering, give an example of different images causing social engineering, preferably something documented, that can be easily researched online, explain what kind of social engineering have you undergone personally and if such process has made you agree to an idea you previously disagreed with, especially if you were disagreeing with that idea because you considered it harmful, then why you simply don’t revert your opinion, if you still truly believe that idea is harmful.
Explain how an image, what kind of property of images or sex dolls has the power to influence people’s minds, coerce them into doing things they previously didn’t like, approved of or agreed with, how exactly these things eliminate human autonomy and hold dominion over peoples decision making processes, and preferably reference sociological concepts and papers that you used to support your hypothesis credibility.
And if you think that in any of those questions I asked about something unnecessary, then think multiple times about it, to figure out what exactly I meant by given sentence, because each and every one of them is throughout. There is no room for strawman, there is no room for offtopic, there is no room for any manipulation, simply take each question, separated by commas, and answer them one by one in a list. It should be simple, right?
This is a simple test, that is your opportunity to prove what you said about yourself:
Now you can prove, that this idea of yours, has been constructed using logic, reason and science and not based on emotions and superstitious beliefs.
We need time to achieve the goal. It can’t happen over night. If the process of replacement of moral (traditional) values, continues with the same speed, i think we will have full MAP acceptance in less than 10 years. The sexual radicalization is already happening. This will play major role in what will happen in the next 10 years.
Think about it. Can you count the number of paraphilias that became “normal, natural” sexual orientations in the last 100 years just because of replacement of traditional moral values with liberal (leftist) moral values? No doubt this pattern will continue. Changing words, changing the meaning of the words, making new words, adding new meaning, mixing words, some language twerking, etc…
When paraphilia is about to be normalized, decades before it happen, you see propaganda that makes the paraphilia to look good. For every paraphilia to be normalized, THE SAME PROCESS IS BEING USED!.
We will make it to look cool. We will make it to look fun. We will make it colorful and attractive.
Well, parent-rights-restricting sex-ed (CSE) and the “drag kid” propaganda will help. While it’s happening, you are free to think that “it’s just art!”, and everything else is a conspiracy theory.
The image has no power. However, the image carry ideas that will stuck in people’s minds. If children are exposed to images of sexualized children (even fictional images), they will grow with the idea that this is normal. This how it works. When you are children, your brain absorbs all information and accepts it as OBJECTIVE truth. This is why childhood indoctrination is more powerful than any other kind of indoctrination. It’s hard to indoctrinate adults, but much easier to indoctrinate kids and replace the moral values.
When a child looks at pornographic images, at school, during extreme graphic sexual education (CSE), in less than a second everything is imprinted in the brain. The desire to be like the characters from the textbooks, will come if the characters are made/pained to look cool while they do what they do. The need of attention, and exhibitionism, will do the rest. The liberal propaganda that “If it feels good, do it, no matter what!” will influence such behaviours. The modern sex-ed, also, have obsessive focus on pushing the idea of sexual pleasure, by targetin younger and younger people… You know what i the real purpose of these things, but you will call it a conspiracy theory, because you want to sound smart.
I use reason and facts. That’s it. If you can believe me what will happen, then wait until it happen - and you will see.
Once again, Japan had those images legal for 60 years. You once again failed at making your case. You claim it will need 10 years for it, 60 years have tested your hypothesis, and the trend isn’t promising. Even more, the erotic arts involving minor looking characters and even real minors has been present for millennia. And once again, the prohibitions of sex with minors only increased ever since.
Yeah, I’ve seen you using these manipulation tactics all the time, glad you finally admit it. Sadly, it failed instantly as you can see by my example.
Only two. And it’s only because they have been proven not to be paraphilias, and not cause any harm to anyone. It wasn’t due to any “leftist” moral values or any other nonsense that you mention. And even then, they are still claimed by many as “depravity” and “unnatural” to this day, as you yourself evidently admitted on multiple occasions.
Explain what is normalization, write a definition of it, explain how this process occurs, and how a thing that objectively causes harm can be considered normal by society.
It’s interesting however that you use the term “normalized”. There is only one group of people, who genuinely believe that there is such a thing as “normalization of pedophilia”, or any paraphilia. People who you claimed to oppose, and yet here we are, using exactly the same rhetoric as them.
Sorry, but no. Propaganda doesn’t work the way you imply its work. It’s not a “brainwashing” method. Propaganda simply is misinformations. There is no magic in it. It further proves that you genuinely have no idea what you are talking about.
No, that is not really how human minds work. If a child sees a murder in a TV show, they won’t think that it’s normal to kill people, to then began killing people. They will sooner or later learn that it’s wrong. And in most cases, even instinctually develop that understanding as they develop their theory of mind. You didn’t provide any sources for your speculation, meaning it’s an unconfirmed hypothesis that you present as true without any evidence.
Right, right, this is why children raised in Christian households (like me) are incapable to become atheists, because as children, they just assume everything they heard is “OBJECTIVE truth”, and never question it, never develop reason, never develop autonomy, never develop critical thinking skills, never approach thing sceptically.
Oh right, it’s not happening, as you, yourself has admitted, the number of religious people is shrinking. How is that possible if what you say is true. The answer is, it’s not. This idea of yours is debunked with your own claims, and not based on any scientific evidence. Another unconfirmed hypothesis that you present as objective truth.
For a person that claimed to oppose anti-sex groups, you are extremely willing to use exactly the same false rhetoric as them, to prove the effects of pornography on human mind.
Your idea that “in second images are imprinted in the brain” is unfounded in any science, this is not how cognition works. And you avoid the important aspect of every sensation being interpretative, and sexuality being predominantly affected by person biology, not the audiovisual mediums. You won’t turn a homosexual into heterosexual with images, and you won’t turn asexual into non-asexual with them either. Every effort, including porn therapy, to affect person sexuality has failed, this idea of yours, is debunked, and you haven’t provided any evidence for your claims that “The need of attention, and exhibitionism, that children apparently have will lead them to have sex with adults”, it’s a ridiculous statement.
It’s not liberal propaganda, it’s some disingenuous misrepresentation of the liberal position. I was a conservative and right-wing most of my life, you know? I know the rhetoric you are using perfectly well, for a person who claimed to be “for the liberation of MAPs” you seem extremely anti-liberty in every other aspect. Moreover, you on multiple occasions displayed authoritarian values, support of censorship, de-platforming and restriction of speech as well as people freedoms. You aren’t for the liberation of anything. Your political position is exactly the same as that of conservatives on the right, and these types are characterized by a moral foundation called purity, which makes you an anomaly.
No, not really, I can call it a conspiracy, because I was taught sexual education in school, and it’s the opposite of what you claim. I have empirical experience of your claims being false, that all of the things you said, is not true. Moreover, it’s the idea that a lot of paranoid about pedophilia individuals like to share, to convince people that “sexual education is evil and should be prohibited because pedophiles want to use it to sexualize children”.
You assume that the entire schooling system is organized with the conscious purpose to prepare children to be raped by adults. With new teachers joining the school system every year, and no one blowing the whistle on such conspiracy.
With people having all sorts of personalities, including a narcissistic personality type, that would be extremely willing to expose such conspiracy just for fame. The probability of such conspiracy being able to be kept as secret borders on zero and goes in its direction with every minute.
No, you aren’t using either of those things. I asked you to answer a series of simple questions. But you have answered none of them. I asked you to present the “science” that you supposedly use, but you have presented none. Your ideas are illogical, full of fallacious and conspiratorial thinking substituting actual arguments. They aren’t even based on emotions and superstitious beliefs. You are simply dishonest, playing out a character of what you perceive as a “lefty liberal that tries to normalize pedophilia”, a strawman, which I know you like to use, that a lot of conservatively/right-wing/religious tend to use to fearmonger about pedophilia. The problem is, no such person has ever existed, and by you playing out such a ridiculous caricature of a human being, that checks all the boxes in the list of “What the evil MAPs are like” in the opinion of such morally panicked individuals was ultimately the thing that has exposed you From your very first post.
When you came to this forum, you presented your initial position as left-liberal, with an appeals to tolerance and acceptance, liberation etc. But then you gradually started signalizing your authoritarian ideas of censorship, deplatforming, restricting peoples freedoms and more. For a person who claimed to want to liberate a minority group, you act like a stereotypical “leftist” or “liberal”, which let’s be honest, the only extremist on the opposite end of the political spectrum believe that “those groups” refer to pedophiles as “minority group”.
Your mentality is based on segregating people into groups, generalization and targeting hatred towards them, finding rationalizations to justify such attitude, and taking the moral high ground while talking about them. That is a typical example of an antisocial personality disorder in full play.
You picked religious groups, especially Islam, that among conservative right-wingers, is a common point of reference when criticizing religion. Which is understandable, there is a lot of reasons to criticize radical Islamists. But you provided extremely surface-level criticism of both this religion and Christianity and were unable to defend your position afterwards.
Your opinion was exaggerated, extremely. And your deflection of my points suggests, that you never had a strong foundation of your opposition to them. You simply had no actual reason behind your hatred, other than spewing out a world salad of enumerating all the bad things in the world and attributing them to religion, which resembles what a stereotypical “liberal” does in an argument by the eyes of a person who is repulsed by such people.
Considering the repetetive inconsistencies in your beliefs that I have been calling out as hypocrisy, of which there was an abnormal amount, your entire activity looks more like a result of trying to make yourself look like a stereotypical pedophile that hates religion (which I can see how easily it could be reconstructed by people like Q Anon followers, who are known for having poor reasoning skills, to the idea of you worshipping satan) who wants to destroy religion and rape children, which is a nightmare of religious people by the way, instead of being yourself.
Once again, I know, I used to be religious, conservative and right-wing my whole life. I know this type of thinking and rhetoric perfectly well. And I do remember the rhetoric and terminology that was used by them, the same rhetoric and terminology you are using now.
Your ways of speaking tend to be drastically irregular, with varying drastically levels of intelligence. In some moments, where you express for example the ideas of de-platforming, you can actually formulate some coherent and logical, even though flawed, response. But when the topic shifts to opinions of your that support the exploitation of children, you completely lose all ability to communicate and deflect trying to change the topic as counterarguments instead. You act like you don’t actually believe in the opinions you share.
You also said, that you don’t want to have sex with children and that you aren’t a MAP. But you never explained what motivates you to have to fight for the group you don’t belong to. You wanted us to buy the idea, that you do it out of the goodness of your heart because you are offended by how pedophiles are treated.
And I could buy it, if it wasn’t for the fact, that you are actually a proponent of sexual interactions with children, you simply call them not abusive, while exploitation is an abuse. You prioritize the wellbeing of MAPs over the wellbeing of children. And that is not something that people sympathizing with no-contact MAPs believe in. Moreover, you tried to use this concept, that liberals use, to explain your motivation. But you are not a liberal, you are an authoritarian. You don’t support the liberty of other people. So your motivation is simply a lie.
When I enumerated to you the list of problems that occur with the abolishment of the age of consent, a concept that you tried to push in a manipulative and disingenuous way by claiming you don’t actually support child abuse, because of your usage of a different definition of what constitutes child abuse. You didn’t agree. You began to enumerate them in an effort to refute all of them, make them seem as irrelevant. You clearly had an intention to convince me that sexual intercourse between minors and adults should be legal and that it’s isn’t harmful. But once again, I’m a victim of CSA, you won’t be able to prove such a thing, simply because it’s not true.
Your entire rhetoric resembles that of a paranoid about pedophilia individual, not a person who would have the levels of open-mindedness large enough to question the social status quo, especially since like I said before, you lack any motivation to actually push this strong into your “liberation of MAPs” mission.
And let’s analyze your personality, shall we?
You have a tendency to categorize people into groups, in order to channel your hatred towards such group, based on nothing, then your unfounded idea of what they are. Which is exactly the same thing that psychopathic play-pretend pedophile hunters - meaning keyboard warriors who falsely accuse people of being pedophiles to harras them - tend to do.
You have almost Nazi-like tendency to desire to punish the ones that you deem unworthy of living. Which is ironic coming from a German. You dehumanize those who you call “religious people”, thinking that they don’t deserve freedom and should be hated.
And that combined with your inability to distinguish right from wrong, tendency to have opinions that suggest you are a risk-taker, many manipulative attempts, inability to admit the mistake, which can be either a narcissistic trait or result of you having delusions, and complete lack of empathy, on top of extremely manipulative and deceptive behaviour, full of redefinitions, wordplay and deflection strongly suggests that you are a type one psychopath, that seeks a socially acceptable excuse to abuse someone to derive pleasure from it, willing to go as far as to orchestrate an elaborate plan to impersonate the character they want to oppose, a character despised by society, by playing it out exactly as they imagine, to confirm their bias, and use the examples of their own account, pretending it’s someone else, to fearmonger people and organize them to attack the organization that “platform such pedophiles”.
Actually, if we replace “religious” with “pedophiles” in your statements, you sound exactly like the people you claimed to oppose. Like the anti-pedophiiles that you claimed to fight against. That really does explain the constant display of hypocrisy coming from your words. You pretended to be someone who you aren’t, but you lack the ability to observe and read people, which is why your character was a caricature of what real pedophile is actually in the real life. You simply didn’t know how to develop your points, because it’s an irrational strawman of what you believe pedophiles believe in. This is why you have never refuted any of my counterarguments to your criticism of the age of consent. I even doubt that you were genuine about this criticism since a lot of holes in your behaviour is explained if we assume that you simply played out this strawman, the childish and very surface-level understanding of this law, to pretend that you oppose it, instead of finding any logical reasons to do it.
Your opinions and descriptions of “liberals”, “leftists”, “liberalism” etc. sound more like examples obtained through nut picking fallacy by the anti-liberal/anti-left/anti-SJW media and personalities than what those people really are. But this perception is simply false. No human being actually behaves the way such media and personalities tend to claim “leftist” behave.
Because seriously, 99% of leftist liberal types, don’t constantly try to insult others as sexists, racists, homophobic etc. as their main line of attack. Your personal political extremism has clouded your judgement, so when you tried to pretend a character with the opposite views to your own, you played out a caricature of “liberal leftist, who is a child predator, that wants to normalize pedophilia”, and that was extremely visible in your very first post.
Repeating exactly the same talking points and explanations as antis do when they accuse things like the fictional depiction of children in art as “causing normalization of pedophilia”. While pretending to be a MAP supporter, validates such talking points and explanations. If you were truly willing to liberate MAPs, you wouldn’t reinforce the stigma, misinformation and stereotypes - something that you accused me of doing towards MAPs - and yet you did.
When I mentioned Q Anon, you reacted abnormally, you became defensive and misinterpreted my statements as a personal attack. You also reacted abnormally when I accused you of being a troll, and went quickly in defensive mode, explaining yourself, instead of becoming angry, as a regular person would become when falsely accused. And you can display anger, you displayed already that you can be irritated, and wanted to end the conversation with me on a couple of occasions. So it’s not like you were trying to be polite.
I also find it interesting, how exactly did you found this Twitter page. It has only 6 followers, only two tweets and doesn’t show itself in the search when you enter “prostasia”. It’s highly improbable that you stumbled upon it by mistake, especially considering it was created as of recent.
And what you wanted to do in this thread? Bait owners of Prostasia to pursue legal action against a Facebook and Twitter groups and other people criticizing them, including the page made by Ayden Férdeline by pretending that he is supported by organizations that have the opposing views to the topic of sex to Prostasia, which is something that you couldn’t possibly really know, since there is no mention of those organizations supporting this site anywhere on the internet.
It would fit perfectly into a narration that “Prostasia is an evil organization that ties to silence truth seekers trying to expose them”, and play the victim, making the owners of Prostasia look bad. You would also use your own quotes to build that narration. To show people that their misguided paranoid induced idea of what pedophiles are like, is true.
In summary, your entire activity on this forum is a theatrical play, you pretended to be what you considered “a liberal pedophile”, playing out a character that people in a moral panic about pedophilia fear, pushing child rape apologetics in a manipulative way, to use it for narration, in order to defame Prostasia and ruin their credibility, by a carefully crafted narration made with the help of planted by you false evidence.
I’m sorry, but the mask is off, and you lost all your credibility. I was hoping for some interesting concepts to arise from discussing with you, but it turned out that your entire ideological basis consists exclusively out of conspiratory nonsense without any basis in reality, things like brainwashing, indoctrination and thinking, that once a person considers something as normal, they will begin doing it, regardless of how many times they will hear that it’s not normal, or wrong, or dangerous, ignoring their own reason, fear of strangers, social anxiety and more factors that play a role in such serious decision as human relationships, simply because they think “it’s normal”. Like seriously, what kind of person evaluates their decision making process on a basis of whenever it’s normal or not? When you want to eat a banana, do you ask yourself before “Hmm, I wonder if it’s normal for me to eat a banana?”. Of course not! It’s such a nonsensical idea, it’s surprising that people who create and share it are so deeply incapable of realizing the flaws in their own thinking. No rational person would ever make such a definition without questioning their own sanity. No wonder “antis” had a problem after asking to define it, they simply don’t know what it means themselves.
Either way, thank you for your conversation, it was fun, and I learned a lot from you about deception and manipulation. I will now be able to better recognize the future efforts of people like you from now on.
It’s not the same. Back then, the social attitudes were different. There wasn’t sexualization. Today we have sexual radicalizations, mass sexualization via media, ponography, etc…
We did it for less than a week. If it’s performed for decades, it will have effect.
Not sure what you mean by “paraphilia”. If you mean a disease, then you have to show evidence of genes that contribute to brain changes that cause pedophilia. If there are no such genes, then pedophilia is not a disease.
Ok. There are morals that prohobit X activity. Under the influence of other other morals that allow X activity, the current morals will start to slowly being replaced, with the new morals that don’t prohibite X activity. This can happen naturally, or be intentional.
Morals are NOT objective, but subjective. This is why there are people who accept murder as a normal thing, and people who dont accept murder as a normal thing. People who are grown in certain ideologies, feel greater freedom to kill for certain causes, than people who didn’t grow in the same ideologies.
I said it’s hard to quit the ideology. I didnt say it’s impossible to quit the ideology.
The number of religious people is shrinking due to better education, less need of gods, etc…
It cant happen over night. New ideas are being installed in people’s heads, one by one. It takes time. The effects of the current sexual radicalization will be seen in around 10 years, i think.
It will happen because there is no reasont not to happen.
I want only the harmful ideologies to be banned. If something is harmful, then i should be banned.
There is not only one kind of sex-ed. It depends on what kind of sex-ed you received.
I didn’t say this. No rape, but replacing one values with others…
Narcissists dont have problems with pedophilia. Narcissism is rising, so we will have better MAP acceptance.
If we dont silence their voices, how will we defeat them? Can you explain me? The idea is to silence all anti-maps, so they cant talk and attract attention. The idea is only pro-maps to be allowed to talk. For example, conservatives are not able to talk, only leftists are able to talk. This is why leftist have bigger infuence than conservatives - because only leftist voices are heard, and conservative voces are silenced.
I do support the idea of silencing all anti-maps. The only thing they do is to insult and send threats, nothing more.
What do you want me to say? Explain me what point i have to defent when it comes to religion.
For what are you talking about?
I have hidden agenda, so i prefer to not explain anything. The only thing i want is total MAP acceptance. It will happen. I will get what i want.
I didnt say i support MAP well-being over child well-being.
In order MAPS to be free, anti-maps must be silenced. It will happen. Anti-maps to be prosecuted, we simply need more censorship over conservative voices. It’s alreadi being worked on more censorship. There is no other way. If you think there is another way to defeat far-right, religious, evangelical, superstitious sex-fascists, then bring the idea to me.
I dehumanize them in the same way THEY DEHUMANIZE all MAPS by calling them “monsters”, “child-fuckers”, “sub-humans”, etc…
im not a psychopath. Redefinition of words, meanings, wordplay, etc… is called social engineering.
This is mostly untrue.
Im attacking anti-maps in the same way they attack MAPS. Im doing nothing different. The actions of anti-maps are clearly disrespctful, dehumanizing, and are directing hate towards MAPS. The only reason why anti-maps arent prosecuted, is because MAPS arent included in the anti-discrimination law.
When you accused me, i simply explained why you are wrong. Im not a troll. Why being angry? Why getting negative emotions? Such emotions are harmful for me, not for you. there is no point in wasting emotions and being angry.
I found him in my feed. The person had different name, and i used to follow him, but i no longer follow him. But, people who follow me, are still following him, this is why he is still shown in my feed. I saw his new name by chance.
Dont try to accuse me im the creator of the site. I found it in the profile of the person i mentioned in the photo when i started this topic. Im not interested in baiting. I simply showed what happened. If there is a chance for legal actions, it will be good if the site is taken down, so all misinformation against Prostasia is removed. I have bipartisan interest with Prostasia, so i will try to defend Prostasia, and clear the name of Prostasia.
This is not true. You are talking fantasies now. Im running blogs even before i know about Prostasia, but i cant show you link because on this topic, but only on private messages, if you are interested. I dont try to ruin the reputation of Prostasia. If someone want to know facts about Prostasia, he/she will go to the “About” page.
There is no such evidence. Sorry.
I didnt understand this.
Dont try to make me look bad. Im fighter for protection of the human rights of MAPS. I support some powerful human rights organization that are trying to abolish the sex offender registry. I support organizations that are trying to make softer “charges” for the so-called sex offenders. I want evidence-based actions, not fear and emotions. There are a lot of people on the sex offender registry just because they had consensual sex. There are minors that are on the sex offender registry for sending nudes, and charged with redistribution with CSEM, which is false, because there was no exploitation and everything was consensual. There are registered people for public urination. Do you find this normal? Are you even able to understand the situation, how many people are jobless, stigmatized, and homeless? You know nothing, absolutely nthing. You are 100% lack of knowledge about this topic. You dont know how many people’s lives are ruined - minors and adults.
Stop pretending to understand, because you dont. You simply try to sound smart, and that’s it. You can talk nonsense all day, trying to downplay the facs, but you will never do it. I have something you dont have. The facts are on my side. I can show statistics about violence against MAPS and murders of people who were identified from the sex offender registry. I know there are hate crimes and xenophobic attacks against MAPS for no reason. There is pedo-hunt that causes deaths of innocent people. Police is calling it to stop, but superstitious primitives and sex-fascists dont listen.
No court will help MAPS. MAPS are not included in the anti-discrimination laws. ECHR does nothing. UN does nothing. Amnesty, HRW… they always do nothing.
There is no help for MAPS. This is why im trying to rise awarness about ongoing extermination of innocent people.
You are trying to downplay the situation by talking things that have nothing to do with the true nature of the reality we live in.
For what are you even talking about? I came to this forum to learn how to minimize child abuse by giving more freedom to MAPS, for example, legalizing child sex dolls and fictional images, which is what Prostasia seems to want too.
You simply attacked me, because you are trying to stop me. New World is coming. And there is no place for cruel individuals as you. You have to chage yourself. Stop trying to make MAPS to look like monsters, because they are not. Keep the pedophilia myths for yourself, and stereotypes and dont push them at me.
I dont accept with you concepts. Stop trying to marginalize these beautiful people! Stop trying to do it! Allow them to be free and to have normal lives!
Another anti-porn talking point nonsense. On top of simply not being true like I already said before.
No, you did it for less then a week, and you failed instantly.
By paraphilia I mean parphilia. There is only one definition of this word, which you should know but apparently you know. Once again strawmaning me in a poor effort to make a response.
No sorry, moral values aren’t determined by media. People had moral values long before any media existed. You clearly have no idea what you are speaking about, and you keep repeating anti-porn arguments as a response.
Just because your understanding of morality isn’t religious, and you can create moral values, doesn’t mean they happen without any reason and basis in anything. No one will accept the thing that is objectively causing pain as morally correct. This is why murder, is not considered moral, by any people.
Morality is strongly determined by peoples genetics. I know it’s hard to believe, but it’s true. It’s called moral foundations. They form a basis, for peoples moral attitudes, and great shape current political attitudes. Just because you are a psychopath without an ability to feel empathy, doesn’t mean the rest of society is also incapable of feeling empathy and doesn’t understand why sexual intercourse with minors has negative effects for that minors in the future.
Even about morality, you keep repeating nonsense, instead of actually learn something before. And your theory that “People who are grown in certain ideologies, feel greater freedom to kill for certain causes, than people who didn’t grow in the same ideologies.”, is completly invalid by the simple fact that the amount of homocides and murders has been dropping in last decades significantly, with only a small percentage of the entire population causing such atrocities.
Seriously, if what you were saying were even slightly correct, in a world with violent games and movies, with so many children left with electronic devices without parents supervision, “learning how to kill” as many opponents of games in the 90s have theorized, we would have an entire generation of mass murderers. And that is simply not the reality we are living in.
It’s not hard to quit ideology. But that wasn’t your point. Your point was that childhood indoctrination is used to replace moral values, and through this unconfirmed psychological phenomenon that you made up, you will convince children to have sex with adults. But the problem is, that once again, this isn’t how the human brain works. Sure, minors are more naive, one of the reasons why their agreement to sex means nothing, which is why any sexual activity with minors is nonconsensual and exploitative, and by this extension a child abuse. But that isn’t enough. Once again, you try to pretend that no person who has been sexually exploited as a child had negative results due to such experiences. Guess what, there used to be a time when adults had sex with minors legally. It has led to a lot of people simply being affected by that fact, a lot of abuse and exploitation. Religious people weren’t against pedophilia forever, since as you noticed, human lifespan was lower in the past, and in the US, child marriage was allowed for a long time, especially in republican states.
But that changed, not because of religion, because religion has adapted those rules the same moment as the rest of society, but because people have noticed issues with allowing such practice to continue. Even if you somehow magically make everyone believe that pedophilia is great, which again, it’s impossible, just like you won’t convince society that we should legalize murder and genocide. It would be reverted very quickly, since the reason why such relationships were prohibited in the first place, wouldn’t be changed at all.
What I’m saying isn’t a difficult logic to understand. Which is the reason why I know you are a disingenuous troll. No human being with an IQ this low could ever manage to use the internet, and definitely wouldn’t have the ability to manipulate the conversation the way you try to.
Just like “religious child indoctrination” doesn’t work, with millions of Christian kids abandoning their religion as they grow up, so is your idea of indoctrination simply not possible.
Thank you for agreeing with me that childhood indoctrination doesn’t work and that you finally notice that there is more nuance to the topic you pretend to have knowledge of.
You keep repeating yourself like a broken record even in spite of evidence being presented to you that completely discredits your conspiracy theories. 10 years, or 100 years, it doesn’t matter. Human psychology will stay the same, and with it, the reaction to all the things that you mentioned. And 60 years of experimenting, especially considering Lolita was a worldwide novel since 1955, giving it an effect of 66 years on all societies of this planet, hasn’t changed a thing.
Your constant repeating of the same talking points, even without changing them looks like a textbook example of delusion.
That is not an answer to the fact, that your perception of what it means to be a liberal, is an idea that antiliberal people have in their head. A great deflection not to admit that you aren’t a liberal and that you don’t know what liberal are like. Only proves further everything I said.
No, that is not true. You notice that abuse happens among grownups in relationships. And yet, you want to open the door for that potential abuse by allowing the relationship between the same grownups, and less experienced and skilled minors, who would be handling this same abuse in way worse way, and with no chances of escaping.
Your own ideology is harmful, but you support it.
No, quite the opposite. What is being said in sex-ed is standardized among all schools in the entire country. Just like every other subject. You claim was that sex-ed is being used to “sexually radicalize minors”. That is simply not true. And you will be unable to provide any concrete examples of that happening.
If you ask 99.9999% of people, if they consider an adult who had sex with a minor to be a rapist, they will say yes. It doesn’t matter what your definition of child abuse or rape is, because what all other people understand by these terms is different, but also way more common than your understanding, which makes their definition, the one that has more value than yours. I’m sorry, but the language doesn’t controll the people, it’s the people who control and shape the language.
So once again, your assumption is that all those people, who would call sex between an adult and a minor as rape, purposefully teach their student’s such things, without any single one of them ever blowing up this conspiracy.
You are full of shit.
And you know that from what source exactly? What kind of narcissistic research do you cite? None, you made it up. Narcissists would do anything that suits their needs. A grandiose narcissist, even if pedophile, would blow up such a big conspiracy to gain popularity and be called a hero. This is how this personality type work.
You seriously are deep in this right-wing echo chamber of yours if you truly believe only conservative voices are silenced. And guess what happened. Parler happened, and millions of conservatives went to it. The Gab happened, and the same thing happened. So now we have 2 platforms dedicated for right-wing conservative types and only Twitter that allows everyone, as long as they don’t start break the rules of service.
Yes, because you aren’t liberal, you are authoritarian. You believe that silencing can work, and don’t understand the reason why free speech is important. You confirmed now that what I said was true, that you pretended to be lefty liberal, while in reality, you are the opposite.
An actual constructive criticism, supported with evidence, that isn’t an exaggerated shouting among the lines of “they are sexist! homophobic! racist!” like a stereotypical liberal leftist would do.
Oh, please, stop pretending and playing dumb. You expected that no one in here is going to recognize your real political alignment since you assumed only liberals could ever question the status quo in regards to pedophilia.
No, what you want is to pretend that you are exactly the type that paranoid about pedophilia people hear about when they hear about MAPs. You lack any motivation to actually wanting that MAP acceptance. And your hidden agenda is not something any legitimate person with a mission would do. It’s something that conspiratorial minds would believe their enemies to try, but the problem with such strategy is that once you are exposed, you lose all the credibility, and it’s simply too risky if you really care about something. You don’t. So you had no issues playing out such a role.
Yes, you did. Not directly, since you are a manipulative disingenuous troll, but every sentence you said indicated that you prioritized adults ability to have sex with minors, then the potential issues it would cause.
Since when I mentioned those problems, you began finding excuses, you didn’t agree with me. You started to rationalize and try to explain why those problems, aren’t really problems. Mostly using arguments from ignorance.
Seriously, no one refers to people as “far-right, religious, evangelical, superstitious sex-fascists” other than a strawman of a liberal that opponents of liberal and mainstream media/Big Tech tend to believe in. You won’t convince me that you oppose such groups when you non ironically use their talking points believing them to be true.
No, not really, You think this is what is happening, and in some limited cases, such individuals exist. But you allow yourself to cherrypick because of your own confirmation bias. You dehumanize people because you like it. There is no noble goal in your actions, you only rationalize your evil tendencies to feel good about yourself. Like a typical insecure psychopath.
Social engineering is a conspiracy theory, not a real thing that sociology believes in. You cannot control peoples minds. It’s simply not possible. This is why the field of sociology only monitors peoples opinions, ideas, behaviours etc. instead of causing them.
Your “social engineering” didn’t work on me from the very beginning. It only prooves further, that you are full of shit.
And yes, you displayed a lot of psychopathic traits. Saying “I’m not a psychopath” when there is so much textual evidence of you exhibiting those traits isn’t convincing even in the slighest.
Sure, “mostly”. Let me guess, you define “mostly” as “fully” now, right? Is this the famous “social engineering” you have been talking about this whole time?
You never allowed yourself to agree with the opponent’s view, when you were in a losing position, you began deflecting and changing the topic. Or you pretended, that your opponent simply doesn’t understand you, while in reality, he has completely debunked your arguments, and you repeat the argument to pretend, that this is the case. It’s what either a narcissist or a delusional person would do in such a situation.
You are a risk-taker since you minimize the risks of situations to zero. You are unwilling to understand that the age of consent is a precaution because the concept of risk is non-existend in your mind. You are willing to legalize sexual intercourse between minors and adults because once again, you minimize any risks for the child.
This also goes to prove you lack the ability to feel empathy, thinking that the best solution to solve the problem of child abuse, is to make them work 15 hours per day so they can become independent. You really wanted to see 6-year-old working a full-time job at a store and attend 7 hours of school per day just to have the ability to have sex with them. That is not only psychopathic but downright sadistic.
You have been manipulating the conversation this whole time, as you yourself admitted on multiple occasions. You said that you have a hidden agenda, you mentioned the usage of manipulation to achieve your goals, and you played with redefining of words and pretending to be someone who you aren’t this whole time.
And your near compulsive desire to just hate, beyond any reason, some kind of people, shows your sadistic tendencies. You simply try to find a socially acceptable excuse to justify your abusive plans.
You are attacking anti-maps by taking the arguments of anti-maps and validating them with your own claims while you pretend to be against anti-maps. This is not fighting against anti-maps. You are trying to give anti-maps more ammo to attack maps. To create an account that looks exactly like what they fear, that will validate all their suspitions, and “sterotypes” as well as “reinforce the stigma”.
You didn’t explain to me why I’m wrong. Your explanations had no substance. You became defensive, while a regular person would become angry at the false accusation. You felt like someone is onto you, so your flight or fight response has been activated. It’s basic psychology, so you aren’t really fooling anyone.
How convenient. But the problem is, that this account has only retweeted 2 posts. Nothing more. So if someone has retweeted those two posts from his profile, you wouldn’t see that profile, you would see only the original tweets.
I didn’t accuse you of being the owner of the site. Where did you get that idea?
I accused you of wanting to bait Prostasia into attacking their “opponents”, to help them play the victim. I didn’t mention the site in particular. I mentioned the Facebook group and the Twitter groups that you were refering to as well.
You say you have bipartisan interest with Prostasia, and considering the manipulative tendencies you displayed on multiple occasions already, you expect me to believe it? Especially when what you proposed, would only result in further harm to the reputation of this organization? I seriously doubt you have any good intentions when it comes to Prostasia. And you don’t have a bipartisan interest with Prostasia, you only pretend to have ones, to stain them with your pro contact rehtoric.
Then send them on my PMs. You should do it instantly, to clear your name. The only thing you sent me is your twitter account made in May last year.
Yeah, but most people won’t go this far, and if someone were to take your responses screenshots, and publish them on social media, they wouldn’t believe in anything Prostasia is writing, they would easily use you as an example of a deceptive and manipulative pedophile that they are so afraid of, who wants to normalize pedophilia, which is the caricature you were playing out this whole time.
Truth is, if you really cared about Prostasia reputation, you would simply stop writing your nonsense in here. But you don’t. You want to smear Prostasia with this rhetoric, to give to people evidence they crave, of Prostasia platforming child predators of your sort.
There is such evidence. Sorry.
You didn’t udnerstood this, or didn’t wanted to understood this. Because in all honesty, there isn’t anything difficult to understand in this quote.
No, you aren’t. You do everything to create the opposite of that effect. You actions speak louder than words.
And yet, you yourself never provide evidence of your own ideas. You are a lier.
So suddenly you care about minors? Only when it suits your pro contact MAP agenda that is.
Seriously, just look at you. Making emotional appeals, signalizing your support to things you find horrible. But the problem is, you have a lot of opportunities to present the reasons why you find those things as wrong and in need of change. But you didn’t. You simply made unconfirmed claims and spread conspiratory talking points of your opponents while playing a pro MAP persona, poorly hiding your deception so anyone can easily see through it.
The poor attempt of a mirror argument to discredit me, and take attention from you, while you are the one that does the things you accuse me of. You are tricking no one.
You haven’t presented any facts so far.
You keep referencing how horrible MAPs are treated. But I never questioned it. I never disagreed with that. I know that they are treated unwell, and you made everything in your power to make the situation even worse.
When you are cornered, you keep backing to the same exact position “I see how MAPs suffer, I want to help them, I can prove to you how much they suffer”.
But the problem is, it’s irrelevant in the context of every single one of our discussions. You literally try to offer me statistics to prove your position is correct, while this aspect of your position was never challenged or denied by me, and by this extension, you pretend this will automatically validate every single one of your ideas, without actually proving them. This is not how discussions work. You might believe yourself to be right and correct, but that doesn’t make you right and correct. You are no less religious in that sense than people on which you supposedly hate.
No, you try to push pro contact rhetoric using manipulation and deception. You have never addressed anything in relation to how MAPs are treated, you instantly began addressing things like child pornography and age of consent. You only reference “the suffering of MAPs” once in a while to pretend that you are “just a worried empathetic good heathered supporter that can’t stand the genocide of the innocent”, while you lack empathy towards minors and good people who believe in religions, and want to take away freedoms from people you dislike under a false pretence “of all of them being racist, sexist, homophobic”, while in reality, it’s almost never the case.
Ironic coming from a person who has been refuting arguments with offtopic and deflection.
And what “true nature of reality” are you talking about? A world in which religions beliefs just magically manifested themselves in peoples minds without any reason, and become the basis of all laws, making them inherently incorrect and in need of abolition. A world where religious people has decided to demonize pedophiles in order to control them because they are authoritarian. A world in which at the same time, there is a conspiracy to use sexual education to radicalize children into having sex with adults. A world in which media, leftists and liberals try to normalize pedophilia by using social engineering, manipulation and deception. A world in which images somehow make children seek sex with adults, simply by making them thing it’s normal, like “normality” would even matter in human decision making process. A world where moral values are changing due to social enginnering of the people in power. A world in which pedophiles are becoming more and more accepted while the religious people become more and more hated and opressed. A world where “New World” order is coming?
Because that is the vision you have presented to me. And it sounds exactly the same as the ideas created by paranoid conspiracy theorists that have a moral panic about pedophilia, that is beign spread in right-wing echo chambers. But here you are, spewing the same values and talking points as such people, and pretending to be liberal who wants to liberate MAPs.
I didn’t attack you, I only debunked your flawed claims. I don’t need to stop you, because you already failed. You got exposed and now you are trying to make me look like some MAP hater that somehow marginalizes MAPs, while there was nothing of such nature in my criticism of your ideas. Ever.
You pretend what a conservative person would believe liberal to do - appeal to emotions by using the marginalized group as a personal shield to push their hidden degenerate agenda. And that isn’t my words. These are your thoughts.
You see, I was talking to pro contact MAPs, and no contact MAPs, and to MAP supporters who aren’t MAPs. And the common thing between all of them is that they truly believe they are correct in their beliefs. This is why they are open about it. This is why they are persistent in trying to convince you, that they are correct.
If you were to truly believe in the words you say. You wouldn’t use deception and manipulation. You wouldn’t have a hidden agenda. But you do. Because you don’t really believe in the pro contact nonsense that you keep spreading. You know it’s nonsense. You know it’s incorrect. You know you won’t convince anyone that you are right. So you resort to lies.
Which is what leads me to believe, with all the other mistakes that you made, that you are nothing than just a troll, pretending to be a caricature of a MAP, a stereotypical image that is used for fear-mongering, to defame Prostasia with your presence. You are not the first one that tried it in here, and you will not be the last one.
When your main tactic is to be manipulative and deceptive and have a “hidden agenda”, don’t expect people not to doubt your intentions and speculate about you having ulterior motives. This is why people who truly believe in their mission never resort to such low methods like you did. It’s common knowledge among all activists, that occurs instinctually for any person with strong beliefs. But you opinions you said are simply evil, which is why you tried to obfuscate them.
This has nothing to do with anti-porn. Morals are changing. If you think that every country has the same morals, then you have never traveled to a different country. Morals are changing! If you time-travel to the past, you will see completely different cultures, morals, ideologies, social attitudes… some countries accept cuttung penis-skin as something normal, while in Europe we accept it as genital mutilation. This is an example of different morals. And what was accepted as immoral in the past, today it’s accepted as good. And more bad things will be accepted as good in the future.
If i start mass propaganda campaign, by using billions of TVs, social media, posters, ads, etc… targeting large population, i will have greater success. The more people i target, the greater chance of success. And the brainwashed people will brainwash more people, etc… This is how things work. Just because the strategy doesnt work on one, concrete person, doesnt mean the strategy in not working at all. It simply mean it doesnt work on one concrete person. Keep in mind that there are a lot of people who think like me. And i successfully convinced more people to think like me.
At the end of the day, “paraphilia” is that… just a word. It mean nothing.
See the so-called definition:
" The definition of paraphilia is any emotional disorder characterized by sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behaviors that are recurrent, intense, occur over a period of at least 6 months, and cause significant distress or interfere with the sufferer’s work, social function, or other important areas of functioning."
It mean nothing. The whole idea of “paraphilia” is based on social attitudes. It says that paraphilia is sexual interest that harms the function of soctiety. Well, just because a group of people accept X action to harm the function of the society, doesnt mean that X action is bad.
There are (as far as i know) between 2%-4% minor-attracted people in the world. And 20% of the world population had sexual interst in children, at some point in their life. I can’t provide link to any study, because i heard it from psychologist in YouTube. The guy is popular, well respected professor, as well.
For these 20%, MAPS are NOT a problem. For the other 80% of hypocritical superstitious primitives who push moral panic, MAPS are not a probem too, but they will scream, because they are hypocritical and want to make show on social media. These are the facts.
The support for MAPS is bigger than what we see. Just because people feel fear to say it, dosnt mean they dont think it. For example, i would make public talks in support of MAPS, i simply dont speak english and cant go to TED-talk.
For me, MAPS dont cause problems in sociaty. According to people in Europe, penis/vagina mutilation is a huge problem, but in the countries where this action is part of the tradition, males and females (/near/ everyone) accept is as a normal thing. In other words, as i already said, the freedom-restricting morals and social attitude are harmful opinions that lead to sex-fascism. These morals are not natural.
No, it wasnt poor rsponse to make strawman fallacy. I responded in the way i responded, because nowadays everyone has different meaning for the same word.
I didnt say the media created morals. I said media can push new ideas, and in this process to replace old moral values with new moral values. I dont repeat anti-porn argumens, because im not against porn.
Religion i man-made mythology. I can prove it.
I dont accept thing that cause pain. In my opinion, moral values are values that contribute to well-being and pleasure, and minimize suffering.
What about the advocates who advocate for murder to be legalized? Their subreddit was suspended, but they were a lot. Now they are on Deep Web, watching videos with murders and commenting how cool it is, and it must be legalized.
Th idea murder is wrong, is subjective, not objective. In the places where dogs are NOT culturl food, the murder is dogs is very wrong, because they are viewed as lovely pets. In the pacs where dogs are cultural food, the murder of DOG is totally ok. This proves that the murder is subjective too.
What about the murder of humans? If you grow in a society hwre murder is considered bad, then you will think murder is bad. If you grow in the mexican or brazilian cartels, or islamic killers or executioners, or terrorists, or african canibals, then murder will be totally ok for you. I know that, because i have watched videos. You DON’T want to watch the videos.
However, in my view murder is wrong. But just because murder is wrong for me, doesnt mean murder is wrong for everyone else.
I can debunk the theory of moral foundation, but only on private messages. I dont want other pople to see what im saying, because they might recognize me.
Social interactions dropped with 71% percent in the last years. This whould giv you answer to the rest of your questions.
Just because homicide is dropping, doesnt mean people are becoming more good. It is dropping, because people know less other people, and have less interactions. Th fertility rate is dropping not because “people work”, or “contraception”, but because people have less social interactions and less sex is done. Also, keep in mind that narcissism is growing exponentially. Im not going to search any studies. You can do it by yourself. Use key-words on google to find it.
If you dont go outside your home, you wont kill anyone.
Indoctrination is still being performed strongar than ever. Today we no longer have religious indoctrination. Today we have state socialist indoctrination, gender indoctrination, and sexual radicalization. Don’t forget the “humans are cancer” indoctrination. It says that humans are killing the Earth. There are a lot of primitives who listen to media and the pseudo-scientists the media uses for the social engineering.
What criticism? You want to see evidence the Earth isnt 6000 years old? Evidence for evolution? What do you want me to show?
I dont support rape.
I didnt understand anything. Sorry.
If you think im a troll or psychopath, you simply got everything wrong. Im simply trying to explain why MAPS are humans like everyone else, and they deserve human rights, and they need to be included in the anti-discrimination law.
Yes. The human personality can NEVER be manipulated. If you repeat a lie often enough, it will never be accepted as truth. The human brain is a great thing! Let’s prise the Lord fo His amazing creation!
Some kinds of social engineering work only on stupid people who dont have critical thinking and the only way to get idea, is to listen to TV or read things from the internet. On these people it works. In your case, it still works, but it will take longer.
Show me the evidence.
I care about everyone who is harmed by the sex-fascism. I dont want to help only MAPS, but everyone who is harmed by this anti-human ideology. It’s not normal to be charged for “sex exploitation” when there is no “sex exploitation”.
You didnt present any facts either. You simply repeat the same closed-minded opinion, while im trying to open your mind to the truth. In the New World, there is no place for such people. You have to change and stop be so cruel to people who have never harmed you. Stop being rude. Your “opinion” is contributing to violence against innocent people. What you are saying, can be used by superstitious primitives as an excuse to justifie their actions.
Then why arent you pro-MAP? Why dont you advocate for MAP acceptance? I did nothing against MAPS. Im trying to open people’s mind to te truth.
I wont reply to te rest because it’s too long. However, i still read everything you say.
Since you only regurgitated previous points with no additional substance, expecting different results this time, I will spare you explaining further what I already said, and do this instead:
The hypothesis that you perform PSYOP, was simply a less insulting explanation that I wanted to present first, despite it being less probable. Because the alternative hypothesis to your extremely abnormal behaviour and opinions is that you are a sex-obsessed, narcissistic or psychopathic, resentful, ex-religious individual, with a moderate intellectual disability.
You most likely grew up or spent enormous amounts of times in communities of your religion, by my estimation Christianity, since it’s the dominant religion of your country, following their doctrine, and at some point, deciding to leave it behind. Maybe some abuse of power has taken place, or some drastic situation that made you change your mind about the religion and your perception of the religious community of your belonging. But even then, you still hold onto the values you used to believe. You never developed an understanding of actual liberal values, and only present yourself as the strawman you used to hear of what and how liberal talk and look like.
Or maybe there has been nothing drastic, and you simply developed an appreciation to sexual matters like pornography. And seeing the same individuals who you used to consider your allays threaten these things, combined with other problems you had with the religion, has resulted in an extreme sense of regret and resentment.
So you decided to start a fight against them, to protect things that are valuable to you, and punish those who in your opinion has hurt you, and threaten to do it again. Perhaps you believe that they’ve been teaching you lies your whole life, that the things that you like and enjoy, are evil. Regretting that you haven’t discovered them sooner, when you were younger.
So your motivation, in this case, would be the desire for revenge. And to achieve that revenge, what would be a better option, than to play a persona of the biggest fears and anxieties Christians have? The boogeyman of a lefty liberal who uses sex and media to normalize pedophilia by making people more depraved using brainwashing and manipulation.
Since once again, it’s a caricature of a person that is simply not real. A caricature that is extremely reduced and simplified. Which is why you couldn’t expand on it, and that is why you only were able to provide surface-level criticism with no defence of your points, or better said, points you suspected the enemies of religious people would make in your opinion.
When it comes to your manipulative methods, I got the sense that you prefer to simply avoid mentioning true informations, than to simply present lies instead, unless as the last resort. So there might be some truth to your claim that you are not a MAP, nor interested in minors whatsoever. But I also think you are not really interested in the wellbeing of MAPs as much as you want everyone to believe.
Your support of them looks very artificial, and even somewhat forced. But it makes sense if we assume that this support stems from the simple fact, that MAPs are the most hated group by religious individuals that you hate. It’s like “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” kind of reasoning. You simply want to make religious people furious. And you hope Prostasia can help you achieve that goal, which is what you mean by referring to having common goals with this organization - a fight against perceived anti-porn religious extremist. It would also explain the reason why you used so many names of anti-porn groups and anti-sex strongly religious groups in connection to that website that defames Prostasia. It is because you wanted everyone in here to hate those groups, even more, hoping that people in here will channel their negative reactions to that site onto those organizations as well by believing they are associated with each other association. Since once again, this site has no information about being supported by any of the group you mentioned.
That was your real hidden agenda. And the reason for your deceptive and manipulative attitude, you wanted to radicalize people both on this forum, and on your other pages, to rally against religion, helping your personal vendetta. This is also why you try to gain publicity through Twitter and Discord. You want to organize people to achieve that goal.
As for your comfortable position in propagating the idea that sex between adults and minors is not wrong and can be perfectly consensual, the same way as it is among well-developed adults, I suspect it’s due to you, looking at this topic through the lens of your own life experience and resentment during the ears of you growing ap, of your past being devoided of sexual activity which you enjoy and deeply value now, due to the environment in which you were living in, forcing you to avoid them at all cost. This regret and resentment over your past experiences had led you to create and idealize an alternative timeline you imagine your life could be like if it wasn’t for the religions influence on your childhood and adolescence. You believe now that you would like such sexual intercourse yourself in the past, and by this merit you assume, that every minor would like it too.
But in order to do that, to develop such an idea and evaluate it as valid, you would have to first devoid the concept of sexual interactions of any dangers, flaws, problems and complications. You like it, so naturally, you idealize it. You have an emotional bais about this topic. You were quick to dismiss and ignore every point I made about why abolishment of the age of consent is a bad idea. It might not be a rationalization, but more like a defence mechanism in a sense. Maybe you don’t want to associate things you enjoy with something that is evil, because maybe you fear it would make you enjoy it less? Kind of like the guilt by association, but in the context of activities or objects rather than people.
You simply lack a perspective of adult people who has been sexually exploited as children, and due to that ideolization of sex, devoiding it and anything related to if from any flaws, with efforts to dismiss any claim of it participating in some harm (with some exceptions that you perhaps separate from sexuality, and treat them more in categories of simply crimes, rather than something that has anything to do with sex), you lack a proper framework to understand the issues with that idea.
Let’s also get back to this persona you use, or maybe better said, a counterargumentation strategy, since you lack an ability to make nuanced counterarguments to support your claims, naturally leaving you only with non-informative alternatives. The reason why you repeat the talking points of “antis” in the same exact way, but with the opposite attitude while claiming to be a type of person they despise and fear at the same time, the literal quotes of their irrational and paranoid accusations, speculations and fears, that they created in a state of panic, is to validate and confirms them, in their mind, and by that extension, their fears and anxieties, making them even more paranoid, simply by merit of you calling yourself a person wanting to liberate MAPs and saying all the things they suspected and accused MAPs of doing. You know that with such a game, you will make them panic even more as a result. You enjoy the idea of suffering you will cause them with such a strategy.
You don’t really believe in those points, you know that they aren’t true. But you adopted them because they greatly improve the effectiveness of your mission for revenge. And with conspiratorial attitude, you can make anything sound valid, especially if it isn’t oblivious.
But a lot of those effects and positions, are a result of your intuition, rather than conscious thinking and speculation. You follow what your gut tells you, what you feel will help you in your goals. And you prefer to live in this comfortable delusional state than to face the reality of the situation - of you focusing on a small vocal minority of political extremists that no one cares about, and assuming, they represent the larger population.
You certainly have a tendency to think in terms of absolutes and extremist positions. You have a binary system of thinking, rather than to understand that everything is a range of values. You have a focus on concrete results, rather than to think in possibilities of multiple outcomes.
So naturally, seeing your oponents, hearing what they oppose, and giving them the enemy they wanted, fits such reasoning really well.
There is also the benefit of potentially gathering more people for your goal. Something you definitely try to achieve by your activity in here (with your first post and the link to your petition), as well as your Twitter page. Thus your position about MAPs, age of consent and usage of talking points of antis as if they were real logical arguments is explained. And perhaps you maybe also hoped to garner the support of MAPs from this forum by appearing more favourable to them, claiming to be a “friend” of MAPs. Carefully testing the waters to realize what kind of MAPs are in here, and what kind of rhetoric to use, to gain as many people as you can, to help you with your actual agenda.
Because it seems that this is the main way of you garnering support, by making people believe what you expect they want to believing. The roughly 90 people following your page. They aren’t following you because they support your cause. They follow you because they believe that it’s you who support their cause. None of them knows that you believe that pedophiles should have the right to have sex with children “if it’s consensual”. Or at least not most of them. You can test this hypothesis. Just write “I don’t think consensual sex between adults and children is child abuse”. You will know then who really supported you, and how many of those 90 people you gathered in the past 6 months only followed you because you retweet information about anti-pornography movements and organizations, that they find relevant due to their own beliefs that align to that of yours about this topic.
It makes sense for your position to be more primarily focused on the wellbeing of MAPs rather than minors, since your focus, your goal is to gain more followers to help you with your mission, and your motivation, is a personal vendetta, and not a genuine concern for other people, like the ones that are underage.
Egoism is a very nicely fitting explanation to the logical inconsistency of you prioritizing the unnecessary pleasure that can be satisfied with alternative methods of less than 5% of the society, above the elimination of risk of abuse and exploitation for 100% of minors in our society.
Either way, it’s only one additional hypothesis that I have about you. Whatever the explanations can be, the following facts about you are unrefutable at this point: You tried to manipulate people in here, you have hidden goals, and you are dishonest about your real motivations and intentions, you aren’t willing to hear out opposing views, only seeking to reaffirm your own existing beliefs, and you are full of hatred towards religious individuals, which is a strong driving force behind your entire efforts, and the main theme and point of reference of all of yours posts.
To finish, it’s clear to me at this point that I am the one that will have to simply end this conversation. You aren’t open to having a proper discussion, you aren’t interested in understanding and learning, and you aren’t mature enough to have an intellectually honest exchange of informations.
So last word of advice. Remove social media from your life for a while, go outside of your home, travel to your nearest city centre, and just sit in the middle, counting people on the streets you can see, incrementing two values: individuals that rally with transparent and slogans against pornography or other sexual topics, and the “everyone else”. This should give you a little bit of perspective of how people think and behave like in the real world.
And if you truly believe in the righteousness of your beliefs, just be honest about them. You have more chances of convincing someone else, if you talk about what you actually believe in, by a simple fact of you being more equipped with knowledge and observations that made you form such belief in the first place, that you can use in your defence. Because all you need is to be caught with a single lie or manipulative effort, for most people to completely disregard any of your future and past ideas forever. And the more you talk, the more probable it is that you will be caught doing such a practice, with the probability eventually reaching 100%. Statistically speaking, it’s simply not effective to behave in a malicious manner. That will be all, thank you for your conversation, and have a nice day.
I would rather see sex dolls to be completely de-associated with real people and moral acceptableness altogether. These are just objects with no rules beyond to be kept in privacy with regards to obscenity law. I would prefer they stay objects and not become humanized to the point of causing a human concern that does not really exist.
My behaviour is normal. I want to protect the rights of people, both, gorwn and young, who suffer from the fascists measures against sex. Im not sex obsessed, nor narcissitic psychopath. I have empathy to people who deserve empathy. However, i have ZERO empathy to superstitious primitives who want to harm innocent people, and restrict the freedoms of everyone by spreading lies and stereotypes about human trafficking, pedophilia, and sex. Take the SISEA bill as an example. Why was this bill created? Does this bill has any science behind it? No. This bill was born out of superstitious beliefs and stereotypes about what human trafficking is. It turned out that beliefs that god created human, beliefs that porn causes addiction, beliefs that porn and human trafficking are the same thing, beliefs that all people in porn are victims of human trafficking, led to this bill. There were more beliefs like these, but im not going to present them.
There are people and organization that push these bliefs in order to restrict people by proposing freedom-restricting laws. Similar to the SISEA bill, are SESTA-FOSTA, EARN IT. All of them - anti-human.
I dont have empathy to bad people, and this doesnt make me bad.
It didn’t happen. My parents are not religious. Religion has never pushed on me against my will. I have never been victim of abuse. I already explained you why im against religion.
This is a little bit correct. Yes, im against the anti-porn movement. These groups are harmful, they spread lies to make porn look bad. They are against sex work too. They say that porn and sex work are human trafficking. They say that everyone in porn is victim of trafficking. All these claims are debunked by me on my profile on social media.
Also, these people dont spread lies about sex work and porn only, but pedophilia too. They are messing human trafficking with pedophilia, which makes pedophiles to look bad. This only increases the stiga surrounding pedophilia. I didnt care about the anti-porn movement until they moved from talking empty words on social media, to real attacks against porn by spreading isinformation, lies, hate against pedophiles, lies about psychology, biology, etc… This triggered me, because im pro-MAP activist, as i already said. Im advocating for acceptance and tolerance. Soon, i will open my private forums and groups. know pro-MA political parties such as PNVD. Im friend with the members of these parties and organizations. Together, we are shaping the New World.
I already explained that no one is hurting me.
I dont give a flying fig about christians. Im doing everything for the New World. Christians are trying to prevent the New World. Everyone who is trying to prevent the New World, is my enemy. In this case, christians are against the New World, so i see them as enemies of me.
I have enough arguments. This is why they feel fear, so they report me to get suspended. Im being censored on all social media. This is why im using private pro-MAP websites now, but soon i will start my own website and forum. If i have private platform, no one will be able to censor me. I already know people who will register on my forum. We are growing groups from Europe, India, and USA.
If im not interested in MAPS, then why im doing everything? You have to understand that MAPS are important part of the New World. This is why i want to protect them. A month ago, I established growing group of protectors. Now, we are growing.
My support is not “artifical”. Stop trying to make me to look like a stupid person. Im serious in my goals. No, i dont hope Prostasia will help me. I know what are the goals of Prostasia. In fact, most of the Prostasia’s goals are not part of what i want.
What is the commong between Prostasia’s goals and me? Well, Prostasia is against bills like SISEA, SESTA-FOSTA, EARNT IT, etc… Im against these bills too. Prostasia says that porn is not leading to increased violence and human trafficking. I support this idea too. Prostasia wants evidence-based laws. When it comes to child protection, evidence-based laws also mean abolishing the sex offender registry. Im against the sex offendr registry too. Prostasia wants legalization of child sex dolls. I want the same thing. Castration is against all evidence, so if we want evidence-based laws, we need to abolish the castration too. These are a few bipartisan interests.
Yes, i know Prostasia is not advocating against the sex offender registry, nor any kinds of castraton. But Prostasia is advocating for evidence-based laws. And evidence-based laws require the abolishment of these things.
I didnt say that anti-porn groups created the misinformation website against Prostasia. The people who created this website have very, very similar, if not the same, interests as the anti-porn groups. They are all very similar. They repeat the same things the anti-porn groups say.
Some of the major players against porn, are:
Exodus Cry: this group is part of the international hous of prayer
NCOSE: anti-porn group, formerly known as Morality in Media
Fight The New Drug: organization of the mormon church
YourBrainOnPorn: i have no informaton about them
Till Christ Returns: i have no information about them