@terminus I think it’d be in the Prostasia Foundation’s best interest if a copy of Walker’s book “Long Dark Shadow” on-hand, if one hasn’t been acquired already.
https://www.amazon.com/Long-Dark-Shadow-Minor-Attracted-Pursuit/dp/0520306368
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I would like a clear definition of what child porn actually is. If a MAP views an image of a real child and is sexually aroused by it is it defacto child porn? What if I’m viewing ads for a clothing brand and I see a child modeling the outfits and I get aroused and start to masturbate? Is it wrong because a real child is involved even though it’s a mainstream ad that would exist whether or not I ever looked at it?
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It shouldn’t be so, but unfortunately that is the way that extremists are trying to define it. The Dost test is a legal test of CP in U.S. law that basically defines it in terms of whether it is something that could arouse a pedophile, instead of being something that harms a child. It’s an example of how so much child protection policy is really just anti-pedophilia policy. Same with the sex doll bans. You’re quite right, that just as a teleiophile can feel sexual attraction to a fully clothed adult, a MAP can feel attraction to a fully clothed child, and there’s nothing that society can (or should) do about it. People are just going to have to learn to sit with their queasy feelings about what goes on in other people’s heads.
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A lot of people would consider that “child porn” though. Im honestly surprised it hasn’t been taken down. A lot people who are currently attacking allyn walker were also demanding Netflix take down the movie “Cuties” claiming that it is “child porn.”
So if I’m going to have a discussion about child porn with someone I need a clear definition of what they mean otherwise we aren’t even arguing on the same page.
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I don’t discuss child “porn.” I find it an offensive as well as overly broad and useless term with too many different definitions and connotations. I discuss child sexual abuse/exploitation material, and pornographic art depicting fictional children.
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Dude, everything that you do in your imagination, which I personally include things you do alone that don’t affect anyone else, anyway, those kinda things, are neither bad nor good. They are just personal stuff that is nobody else business. The reason for that is, being bad or good is always about opinions. And personal stuff like that should be placed outside the realm of other people’s opinions.
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I think something should be said about how society can create harm by how they react to such depictions. Do you think the girls in cuties would be negatively effected as much if people congratulated the girls for their performance instead of being outraged and calling it disgusting child porn?
If you tell a girl “this is disgusting. This is wrong. This is exploitation!” Then they will internalize that and start to feel guilty and bad about it.
Imagine if you were raised in a vegan home and your parents told you that eating meat is wrong and eating meat is murder. You would probably feel a lot of guilt about eating a hamburger because you were told it was immoral so many times by your parents, whereas a child who was not raised to believe that will eat a mcdonalds happy meal everyday and not feel an ounce of guilt.
You can even see this unfold in real time. A muslim girl raised in a strict religious household will feel more guilt about dressing in a short skirt than a girl raised in a non-religious liberal household where women are not told what to wear.
I’m not trying to make “pro-contact” positions here by the way. I do realize that there is sexual exploitation that exists outside of social constructs. But to completely deny that social attitudes play any role in our perceptions of the sexual exploitation of minors would be intellectually dishonest at best and would show a lack of understanding about how social norms are created by society.
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The university caved
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Unfortunate but also unsurprising
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This is very upsetting to me personally, because I want to see more work by Walker.
I want to see more progress by people like Walker.
I just purchased a copy of their book and have been reading it. A great deal of it is just information that I already know, but what I didn’t was very encouraging.
I hope Walker is able to continue their research.
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“They don’t know the first thing about MAPs”
I don’t know… I think a non insignificant percentage of “ordinary” people know more about the *
way MAPS think then they would ever admit, to others or themselves for that matter.
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Cowards. (not Dr. Walker, but the ODU and especially its president)
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This video was made for the Rittenhouse trial, but there are philosophies general enough that it can be used anywhere, including here:
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Ostensibly “child protection policy”
And consequently, that will highly likely lead to “acting out” as a means of justifying one’s own identity/history. This is basically the ‘Pygmalion Effect’ in action; a form of self-fulfilling prophecy that suggests people will behave as others might expect them to behave. So thus, they may become highly promiscuous or get involved with people who are out to genuinely exploit them, either sexually and/or in other ways.
I see this as a most evil, unconscionable influence, as those who criticised the original film can then say “See! This is because of the way they were exploited in ‘Cuties’!” totally absolving themselves of contributing to this outcome.
“Honi soit, qui mal y pence”.
(Shame on him who sees evil in it)
…and a “non insignificant percentage” of those people would not “ever admit, to others or themselves” a lot more loudly and vehemently than the rest!!!
The entire point of this is to suppress opinions and/or research that are not liked.
In July of 1999, the U.S. Congress condemned the so-called Rind study. The votes were 355-0 in the House of Representatives, and 100-0 in the U.S. Senate. This was the first time in American history that Congress condemned an academic study.
The American Psychological Association (APA) originally published and supported the Rind study, but in the face of withering public criticism, the withdrew the study, and their support of it, essentially, joining with its’ detractors, lest they too, be similarly condemned.
It is sad when even scientific organisations kowtow to the mobs.
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Child porn is whatever the legislators say it is. In the country where I live, people have been jailed for writing/publishing non-illustrated fiction featuring underage characters. You can go to jail here for possession of cartoons that feature nudity, and whose characters appear to be, or are described as, underage.
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There’s a new Rind publication just out:
I am not endorsing it by sharing the link. Prostasia would never use terminology like “minor-older sex.”
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