Article says that child sex dolls are not the answer for preventing child sexual abuse and that they are sexist by nature

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The highly gendered nature of sex dolls and robots is rarely acknowledged by academic supporters of the products. The vast majority of these dolls and robots are embodied female, typically designed according to pornographic standards. Research indicates that sex-doll owners are overwhelmingly men. Child sex dolls are similarly gendered and modelled on the bodies of prepubescent girls. I am yet to see a male-bodied child doll. Essentially, these products are lifelike material representations of women and girls marketed for men’s sexual use.

Academic proponents of female-bodied sex dolls and robots fail to situate the products within the wider cultural context in which they are produced — one in which gender inequality persists, where male violence against women and children remains a serious global problem, and where women and girls are raped, beaten, abused and prostituted by men. Within an existing system of male dominance and female subordination, female-bodied sex dolls reinforce women’s subordinate status and the sexual objectification of women and girls. Despite this reality, a number of academics encourage the manufacture of these products for men’s sexual use, and some actually herald child sex dolls as a therapeutic treatment for child rapists — an approach that I see as both misguided and irresponsible."

Child-sex-doll advocates claim that childlike dolls will prevent the abuse of actual children. However, there is no assurance that paedophiles who have access to child dolls will use them instead of, and not in addition to, children. There is no evidence for the previously popular idea that men perpetrate sexual violence against women, children and other men due to uncontrollable sexual desire, or because they do not have a sufficient outlet for their urges. Likewise, there is no evidence that child sex dolls will lead to a reduction in the abuse of children.

There is no shortage of sexual outlets available to men outside of traditional intimate relationships. Men can pursue sexual encounters by means of dating or hook-up apps; they can access an endless supply of pornography, view webcam models or engage in cybersex. In many parts of the world there is a thriving legal sex industry where men can access a range of women for sex, and now there are sex-doll brothels. Nonetheless, having access to these outlets has not stopped men from raping. On the contrary, sexual violence remains prevalent across the world.

The argument that child sex dolls could function as a sexual outlet, preventing individuals who would otherwise rape children from doing so, also fails to consider the wider cultural context in which these products are manufactured — a system of institutionalised male dominance, routine sexual objectification of women and a culture that eroticises girls.

Cultural messaging increasingly presents girls as sexually available and appealing. The “Teen” porn genre consistently features on the online pornography aggregator Pornhub’s list of most popular search terms. “Barely Legal” pornography featuring teens with pigtails, flat chests and braces can be purchased in newsagents and petrol stations. G-strings, padded bras and bikini tops, and underwear with sexually suggestive slogans are marketed to pre-teen girls. Advertising material depicts girls in sexualised and adultified ways. Schoolgirls are fetishised, and sexy-schoolgirl costumes are sold in mainstream retailers. Instagram routinely hosts sexualised content of underage girls and comment responses from predatory men. Major bookstores and online marketplaces have been exposed selling erotic e-books that feature incest and child abuse. Adult retailers sell male masturbators designed to emulate the vaginas of teenage girls — such as the Teenage Dream or Lolita Vibrating Vagina — with promotional material emphasising youth and innocence.

Claims from child-sex-doll advocates that the dolls could prevent child sexual abuse — because paedophiles will use dolls instead of children — are speculative. In order to justify the development of child sex dolls and robots, supporters would have to establish that child sexual abuse is perpetrated by medically designated “paedophiles,” and that paedophiles will use dolls instead of children.

But it is not just paedophiles who perpetrate crimes of sexual violence against children. Not all child sex offenders are paedophiles, and not all paedophiles sexually offend against children. According to the Australian Institute of Criminology, while some perpetrators of child sexual abuse are attracted to children, they may also have a sexual interest in, or offend against, adults. Child sex offenders may also act out of opportunity rather than sexual attraction to children. Research by Richard Wortley and Stephen Smallbone finds that situational and environmental factors play an important role in sexual offences against children, and further research highlights the role of opportunity in child sexual abuse — including institutional and church settings, online child exploitation and child sex tourism.

If child sexual abuse is also perpetrated by individuals who are not primarily sexually attracted to children — men who do not have a pre-existing sexual preference for children — then claims that child sex dolls could protect children from abuse are questionable. How effective could child sex dolls for paedophilic use be in preventing child abuse if many offenders are not actually paedophiles?

Even if it could be determined that child sexual abuse was perpetrated solely by paedophiles with a sexual preference for children, in order to justify the manufacture of child sex dolls or robots it would have to be further established that providing them for paedophiles would prevent their offending against children. According to Marie-Helen Maras and Lauren Shapiro from City University of New York, therapeutic child sex dolls for paedophilic use are “nonsensical and irrational.” Childlike sex dolls normalise child abuse and domination rather than inhibiting it and go against cognitive-behavioural-therapy goals, which challenge undesirable thoughts and behaviour.

the dolls will prevent sexual offences against children, the opposite is the more likely outcome. Child sex dolls harm children through legitimising and normalising their sexual use. Instead of satisfying users’ sexual appetites for children, they could encourage and even strengthen these urges. Child sex dolls could have a “reinforcing effect” on paedophilic ideation, claims Peter Fagan from John Hopkins School of Medicine, and the use of such dolls could cause paedophilic urges to be acted on with more urgency.

Legislators and law-enforcement agencies believe that there could be a link between child sex dolls and sexual offending against children. A relationship between viewing child-exploitation material and contact offending has been established. There may also be a link between child-sex-doll ownership and possession of child-abuse material. In 2018, a police raid in Melbourne saw child sex dolls seized alongside “horrific” child-exploitation material, including videos of children and babies being tortured. In the United Kingdom, twenty out of twenty-six recent child-sex-doll offenders were found in possession of child-abuse material. Also in the United Kingdom, a surge in seizures of child sex dolls led police to identify previously unknown suspected paedophiles, resulting in seven men being charged, and six more facing allegations linked to child-exploitation images. According to the Crown Prosecution Services, child-sex-doll cases can be an indication of other offending against children.

A report from the Australian Institute of Criminology released last year argued that child sex dolls present a risk of escalation in sexual offences against children. Authors Rick Brown and Jane Shelling claimed that child sex dolls could “promote a continuum of behaviour that results in contact offending, by bridging the gap between fantasy and reality.” Patterns of escalation have already been documented in consumers of child-exploitation material, and researchers believe that consumers of child-abuse material could progress to using child dolls.

On a child-exploitation spectrum from viewing child exploitation to contact offending, performing sex acts on a childlike doll may be understood as a natural progression from viewing child-abuse material, and a step closer to sexually abusing a child. As Open University lecturer Litska Strikwerda acknowledges, using a child sex robot could be a much closer experience to actually sexually abusing a child. Maras and Shapiro argue that recent UK arrests for importing child sex dolls indicate that offenders escalate from viewing child-exploitation material to engaging in physical acts with child sex dolls:

In these cases, child pornography did “whet the appetite of the perpetrators” as their “thoughts” (fantasies about sex acts with children) became “behaviours” (through buying and importing the child sex doll to perform sex acts with it).

Child sex dolls could increase the likelihood of child abuse by reducing any barriers to committing sexual offences against children. Users could be desensitised to the harms of child sexual abuse, as dolls give no emotional feedback. Child sex dolls could also be used by sex offenders in the act of sexually assaulting a child. Child sex offenders could use childlike dolls as a tool to groom children for sexual abuse, just as predators have used pornography to groom children. Brown and Shelling note that sex dolls have been used to groom children for sexual abuse, and child sex dolls could arguably be even more effective for grooming children than adult sex dolls.

Would like to hear you guys thoughts on this, found it pretty biased. And while sure, the majority of sex dolls are female, as soon as they get less and less stigmatized there will be (possibly) more child sex dolls of boys and dolls for women.

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Full disclosure: I am not a woman, and I will never know what it’s like to be a woman. I will be giving my male opinions on these feminist talking points (for the record, I am NOT anti-feminist). I am also speaking from the selfish PoV of somebody who would like to have his own childbot someday, and am thus incredibly biased. Take with a grain of salt:

The highly gendered nature of sex dolls and robots is rarely acknowledged by academic supporters of the products. The vast majority of these dolls and robots are embodied female, typically designed according to pornographic standards. Research indicates that sex-doll owners are overwhelmingly men. Child sex dolls are similarly gendered and modelled on the bodies of prepubescent girls. I am yet to see a male-bodied child doll. Essentially, these products are lifelike material representations of women and girls marketed for men’s sexual use.

Per current research, the vast majority of pedophiles are straight men. Approx. only 1-5% of all pedophiles are female, IIRC. Of course most pedophilic toys are going to be made with a majority straight male market in mind. And just because 95-99% of these toys are marketed towards straight men doesn’t mean models based on prepubescent boys don’t exist. If the author of this article hasn’t seen any, it’s because they haven’t looked hard enough. I certainly have.

Academic proponents of female-bodied sex dolls and robots fail to situate the products within the wider cultural context in which they are produced — one in which gender inequality persists, where male violence against women and children remains a serious global problem, and where women and girls are raped, beaten, abused and prostituted by men. Within an existing system of male dominance and female subordination, female-bodied sex dolls reinforce women’s subordinate status and the sexual objectification of women and girls. Despite this reality, a number of academics encourage the manufacture of these products for men’s sexual use, and some actually herald child sex dolls as a therapeutic treatment for child rapists — an approach that I see as both misguided and irresponsible."

I presume that this person is likely also against pornography/sex work in general. Well, statistics prove that countries with access to pornography are much better for women to live in. Compare the USA to an Islamic theocracy. The difference in violence towards women and girls is night and day. Porn, sex dolls, etc., either don’t make a significant increase on rate of abuse or in fact lead to an overall decrease in abuse, as postulated by academia.

Child-sex-doll advocates claim that childlike dolls will prevent the abuse of actual children. However, there is no assurance that paedophiles who have access to child dolls will use them instead of, and not in addition to, children. There is no evidence for the previously popular idea that men perpetrate sexual violence against women, children and other men due to uncontrollable sexual desire, or because they do not have a sufficient outlet for their urges. Likewise, there is no evidence that child sex dolls will lead to a reduction in the abuse of children.

You could argue the same of lolicon vs. CSAM. That there’s no guarantee that a pedophile wouldn’t consume lolicon in addition to CSAM, as opposed to instead of. However, I refer you to my previous comment: having access to alternatives to the real deal either doesn’t lead to any significant increase of abuse or leads to an overall decrease.

There is no shortage of sexual outlets available to men outside of traditional intimate relationships. Men can pursue sexual encounters by means of dating or hook-up apps; they can access an endless supply of pornography, view webcam models or engage in cybersex. In many parts of the world there is a thriving legal sex industry where men can access a range of women for sex, and now there are sex-doll brothels. Nonetheless, having access to these outlets has not stopped men from raping. On the contrary, sexual violence remains prevalent across the world.

Well, yeah. Sadly, rape will always be prevalent. We never claimed porn and dolls would literally end sexual violence, that would be a completely insane thing to claim. It would likely never even make a teeny tiny dent in stopping the vast majority of cases. The point is that these resources don’t seem to have any significant impact either way. To go after literal sex toys of all things does nothing to actually make a dent in rates of abuse.

The argument that child sex dolls could function as a sexual outlet, preventing individuals who would otherwise rape children from doing so, also fails to consider the wider cultural context in which these products are manufactured — a system of institutionalised male dominance, routine sexual objectification of women and a culture that eroticises girls.

That’s not the dolls’ fault, that the fault of society at large failing to dismantle institutional misogyny. Your time will be much better spent taking down stuff that actually sexualizes real, breathing children; like Japan’s teen idol culture or American child beauty pageants. Why give a hoot about what people do with an oversized onahole that has no soul in their own home when you could be tending to real victims of potential abuse?

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Cultural messaging increasingly presents girls as sexually available and appealing. The “Teen” porn genre consistently features on the online pornography aggregator Pornhub’s list of most popular search terms. “Barely Legal” pornography featuring teens with pigtails, flat chests and braces can be purchased in newsagents and petrol stations. G-strings, padded bras and bikini tops, and underwear with sexually suggestive slogans are marketed to pre-teen girls. Advertising material depicts girls in sexualised and adultified ways. Schoolgirls are fetishised, and sexy-schoolgirl costumes are sold in mainstream retailers. Instagram routinely hosts sexualised content of underage girls and comment responses from predatory men. Major bookstores and online marketplaces have been exposed selling erotic e-books that feature incest and child abuse. Adult retailers sell male masturbators designed to emulate the vaginas of teenage girls — such as the Teenage Dream or Lolita Vibrating Vagina — with promotional material emphasising youth and innocence.

Aside from the public comments on Instagram directly catcalling children, everything you just brought up is FANTASY. Legal 18/19 pornstars doing ageplay, erotic FICTION depicting nonexistent minors, rubber/silicone TOYS that have no soul, etc. This is a non-issue, most people are perfectly capable of keeping their fantasies and desires in check and consigning themselves to fiction. The minority who cannot do this are not representative of the vast majority of the consumers of these products. These products cannot be blamed for the actions others might take, the same way comic books, rock music, horror movies, video games, etc., can’t be blamed for real world violence.

Claims from child-sex-doll advocates that the dolls could prevent child sexual abuse — because paedophiles will use dolls instead of children — are speculative. In order to justify the development of child sex dolls and robots, supporters would have to establish that child sexual abuse is perpetrated by medically designated “paedophiles,” and that paedophiles will use dolls instead of children.

But it is not just paedophiles who perpetrate crimes of sexual violence against children. Not all child sex offenders are paedophiles, and not all paedophiles sexually offend against children. According to the Australian Institute of Criminology, while some perpetrators of child sexual abuse are attracted to children, they may also have a sexual interest in, or offend against, adults. Child sex offenders may also act out of opportunity rather than sexual attraction to children. Research by Richard Wortley and Stephen Smallbone finds that situational and environmental factors play an important role in sexual offences against children, and further research highlights the role of opportunity in child sexual abuse — including institutional and church settings, online child exploitation and child sex tourism.

If child sexual abuse is also perpetrated by individuals who are not primarily sexually attracted to children — men who do not have a pre-existing sexual preference for children — then claims that child sex dolls could protect children from abuse are questionable. How effective could child sex dolls for paedophilic use be in preventing child abuse if many offenders are not actually paedophiles?

This is completely irrelevant. We are talking about helping at-risk-of-offending pedophiles. Yes, you’re correct that the vast majority of pedophiles already don’t act on it, and that most cases of CSA happen due to a plethora of reasons other than pedophilia:

-alcohol/drugs altering the mind and causing the perpetrator to do something they wouldn’t normally do

-attraction to “taboo” things and lacking self-control over compulsive sexual behaviors (sexual attraction to something because it is taboo is NOT the same thing as being a pedophile, especially in regard to pedophiles who are also romantically attracted to children)

-brain injury changing the perpetrator’s personaity and causing them to act in ways they wouldn’t have before (Phineas Gage - Wikipedia)

-developmental/intellectual disability causing the perpetrator to genuinely not know any better

-genuine mental illness/insanity causing the perpetrator to not be in control of themselves (not guilty by reason of insanity)

-greed/need for money made from child prostitution and/or CSAM production (poor families have historically sold their own children into slavery in exchange for hefty cashola)

-hatred/sadism towards children

-life/work stress and needing an “outlet”

-child-on-child SA, where the perpetrator is simply too young to know better

-sexual desperation/opportunism (“I NEED to have sex, ANYBODY will do…!”)

-using rape to “correct/punish” children (corrective rape; I recently read a news story of a youth pastor being caught raping young girls to make sure they didn’t turn into lesbians)

Etc.

But, that not what these dolls are concerned with tackling. They are concerned with tackling actual pedophiles who’re at risk of committing an offense because of their attraction, which neither describes the vast majority of pedophiles or the vast majority of perpetrators. It’s a very niche issue, and writing an entire article about the “evils” of sex dolls is useless and self-defeating.

Even if it could be determined that child sexual abuse was perpetrated solely by paedophiles with a sexual preference for children, in order to justify the manufacture of child sex dolls or robots it would have to be further established that providing them for paedophiles would prevent their offending against children. According to Marie-Helen Maras and Lauren Shapiro from City University of New York, therapeutic child sex dolls for paedophilic use are “nonsensical and irrational.” Childlike sex dolls normalise child abuse and domination rather than inhibiting it and go against cognitive-behavioural-therapy goals, which challenge undesirable thoughts and behaviour.

“Undesirable thoughts”? Okay, now you just sound like you’re advocating for “conversion therapy” (which A., doesn’t work; B., is literal torture). Which is NOT what CBT is supposed to be used for. It’s LITERALLY called “cognitive-BEHAVIORAL-therapy”. It’s for helping people control BEHAVIOR, NOT ATTRACTIONS.

the dolls will prevent sexual offences against children, the opposite is the more likely outcome. Child sex dolls harm children through legitimising and normalising their sexual use. Instead of satisfying users’ sexual appetites for children, they could encourage and even strengthen these urges. Child sex dolls could have a “reinforcing effect” on paedophilic ideation, claims Peter Fagan from John Hopkins School of Medicine, and the use of such dolls could cause paedophilic urges to be acted on with more urgency.

This tired argument doesn’t even deserve the dignity of a response. If this were the case, lolicon would lead to an EXPLOSION of CSAM. And uh, I’ve yet to see compelling evidence that it has:

Legislators and law-enforcement agencies believe that there could be a link between child sex dolls and sexual offending against children. A relationship between viewing child-exploitation material and contact offending has been established. There may also be a link between child-sex-doll ownership and possession of child-abuse material. In 2018, a police raid in Melbourne saw child sex dolls seized alongside “horrific” child-exploitation material, including videos of children and babies being tortured. In the United Kingdom, twenty out of twenty-six recent child-sex-doll offenders were found in possession of child-abuse material. Also in the United Kingdom, a surge in seizures of child sex dolls led police to identify previously unknown suspected paedophiles, resulting in seven men being charged, and six more facing allegations linked to child-exploitation images. According to the Crown Prosecution Services, child-sex-doll cases can be an indication of other offending against children.

I’m not so interested in what lawmakers and police have to say. I prefer to listen to researchers and scientists (who, BTW, have generally found that the majority of CSAM viewers never escalate to hands-on offenses, hence why some of them advocate decriminalizing CSAM. Not a position Prostasia agrees with IIRC, but the fact that this argument could be made indicates to me that further research into this subject is required).

Believe it or not, several cases where people were found to own both CLSDs and CSAM is not indictive of the typical consumer of either. This is confirmation bias. You happen to find multiple doll owners who also use CSAM. You extrapolate this to assume ALL doll owners must be at risk of consuming CSAM and thus these dolls are inherently dangerous. Sorry, but I see this as a fallacy. Without full accurate statistics, how could you make such claims? If we did a crackdown on literally every person who has a CLSD. I betcha the amount of those who overlap on engaging with CSAM or CSA will be much smaller than you’d expect.

A report from the Australian Institute of Criminology released last year argued that child sex dolls present a risk of escalation in sexual offences against children. Authors Rick Brown and Jane Shelling claimed that child sex dolls could “promote a continuum of behaviour that results in contact offending, by bridging the gap between fantasy and reality.” Patterns of escalation have already been documented in consumers of child-exploitation material, and researchers believe that consumers of child-abuse material could progress to using child dolls.

On a child-exploitation spectrum from viewing child exploitation to contact offending, performing sex acts on a childlike doll may be understood as a natural progression from viewing child-abuse material, and a step closer to sexually abusing a child. As Open University lecturer Litska Strikwerda acknowledges, using a child sex robot could be a much closer experience to actually sexually abusing a child. Maras and Shapiro argue that recent UK arrests for importing child sex dolls indicate that offenders escalate from viewing child-exploitation material to engaging in physical acts with child sex dolls:

“In these cases, child pornography did “whet the appetite of the perpetrators” as their “thoughts” (fantasies about sex acts with children) became “behaviours” (through buying and importing the child sex doll to perform sex acts with it).”

First of all: Slippery slope - Wikipedia

Second: “using a child sex robot could be a much closer experience to actually sexually abusing a child”? Gonna be honest, I just can’t bring myself to care about the rights of an unfeeling soulless robot :person_shrugging:.

Child sex dolls could increase the likelihood of child abuse by reducing any barriers to committing sexual offences against children. Users could be desensitised to the harms of child sexual abuse, as dolls give no emotional feedback. Child sex dolls could also be used by sex offenders in the act of sexually assaulting a child. Child sex offenders could use childlike dolls as a tool to groom children for sexual abuse, just as predators have used pornography to groom children. Brown and Shelling note that sex dolls have been used to groom children for sexual abuse, and child sex dolls could arguably be even more effective for grooming children than adult sex dolls.

My God, if somebody really wanted to groom a child by using porn, adult porn is already much more widely available and likely even more effective (“you wanna be treated like a “big girl”, don’t you? Well, this is what big girls like to do…”).

These arguments have already been debunked several times in the past. I am tired of them, so very very tired. In fact, I’m so tired that I’m going to bed, gn :wave:. Sorry if I got sloppy towards the end, but man, this article just wouldn’t give up! If any of y’all wanna add or correct anything, feel free.

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I also felt like that. Sure, the vast majority of sex dolls are female. Still, I have seen lots and lots of male sex dolls. There was literally a woman trying to track down Amazon after she saw a sex doll that resembled a baby boy.

That’s just how I felt about the whole thing. What will change about that as soon as sex dolls get banned? The problem is that sex is stigmatized among women and misogyny. As soon as these things change I bet more and more women will have sex dolls.

Not to mention the TikTok sexualization of children, like there was a case of a man who traveled HOURS just to see a 7 year old influencer and sleep on her house. All allowed by her mother. Whatever some dude decides to do with a doll ain’t gonna change nothing on what abuse rates are because it’s an institutional problem and often the main problem are the parents.

Could you link any of that, please?

I feel like yeah, maybe some chomo could use that for abuse little kids, but that absolutely doesn’t mean that dolls itself should be banned. Just like porn, short clothes etc shouldn’t. Everything can be used to groom against children.

As a woman, I don’t really care about the feminism movement but I do agree with some few stuff of what they say. But one of the things that I dislike about them (specially radfems) is this whole massive sex negative attitude. Like girls, sorry to break it for you guys, but nobody cares about your sex negative views. People are horny. But honestly, I Don’t really care about them. Their views will never reach to be popular so, whatever lol. At end of the day, all I want is to be sexually satisfied.

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As almost 100% of the time, articles against the use of sex dolls are full of misleading information and all on supposition. They never base anything on actual concrete information.

As mentioned before, if actual CSAM doesn’t increase the child SA rates, then dolls and lolicons sure won’t.

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There’s nothing in the history of humankind that even suggests that not pretending that a doll has human rights has ever been the reason for someone’s misbehavior.

No one’s freedom should depend on pretending that a doll has human rights.

It’s one thing to condemn treating a person as though they were a doll. It’s quite another thing to condemn treating a doll as though it were a doll.

The symbolic argument asserts that a doll should be treated as though it were a person. That is not discernible from ascribing human rights to a doll.

If all agree that it’s not evil to not care about what happens to a doll, then condemning someone for not caring about what happens to a doll doesn’t make sense.

That something isn’t a remedy doesn’t justify proscription. Hate doesn’t justify punishment.

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We’re going to need to consolidate all research on CLSDs and keep them at the ready to send to policymakers whenever bad legislation comes up.

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Best to keep these articles in mind. Any other topics which need compiling?

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