Austria: Sex doll ban failed

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Right, but human rationality can be fallible, reasoning can be influenced by feelings, beliefs, experiences, morals, values, etc. Why do you think many countries that outlaw CSA also criminalize (to an extent) lolicon/shotacon and child sex dolls? You already knew that though. I found an article on human rationality:

A lot of people think that spanking children TOTALLY ISN’T child abuse, despite scientific research saying otherwise. Many politicians probably wouldn’t want to speak out about it for fear of losing votes or support. Same thing with virtual/simulated CP.

That being said, it IS possible to change people’s minds and some progress IS being made, but there’s still a lot to be done. Denmark, Finland and Japan are examples of countries that have outlawed real CSAM, yet virtual/simulated CP is legal.

Obscenity is another problem entirely. Like the USA, Japan has its own obscenity laws. In Japan, genitalia has to be censored (either pixelated or by using black bars), because uncensored genitalia is considered obscene, which the law defines as “arouses or stimulates the viewer’s sexual desire”.

However, now, Japan has a law that prohibits “online insults”, which can get you arrested. The law states that an insult is “publicly demeaning someone’s social standing without referring to specific facts about them or a specific action”. The Japanese moral police is little different than the moral police in other countries.

Remember the moral panic in Japan that was triggered by Tsutomu Miyazaki?

Honestly, with how things are going, it wouldn’t be surprising if Japan ended up banning lolicon/shotacon. It would be unfortunate for many people, but the moral police only care about their feelings, not others.

I think this is relevant here:

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That is true, but what I meant to ask was: what will be the negative consequences of outlawing virtual materials? As in, what would it take for lawmakers to see that they shouldn’t ban these things? The way the issue was framed in a previous comment made it seem like there would be extremely bad consequences for society if this continued.

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Finland’s sex therapy org, which is also the oldest in the world, has been demanding the leglisation of realistic fictional content, too. They argue that the ban is merely moralistic and a victimless crime. You need to understand that Finland is probably one of the, if not the, most liberal country on earth due to the history of being russias “slave”. In some countries they make an exception for artistic expression e. g “legal if high artistic value”. Finland also has that, but for realistic images if “it has artistic, or informational value”.

It’s mostly culture. Moral panic is hard to spread in a society that’s quiet and only speaks when necessary. Privacy is very respected.

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Also, on the topic of Japan banning fiction; never gonna happen due to the way japanese law works and the fact that citizens can actually grasp this. If they would ban it then they can technically ban even more fiction, because while the argumentation for the banning of x is different it still serves as a precedent for other stuff, a wet dream for law makers in Japan.

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Lack of healthy outlets for people who can’t legally act on their sexual attractions, survivors being unable to talk about their experiences where text-based descriptions of child abuse are banned, increased rates of abuse for a wide number of reasons (lack of outlets, limited sex-ed resources). It’s not my main area of focus so others here can probably come up with a more comprehensive list.

More specific to dolls: discrimination against people who are into smaller bodies (regardless of whether or not they’re a MAP, I’ve seen teleiophiles with small dolls simply because size difference is a fantasy of theirs). Same reason anti-porn activists are able to advocate for banning some adult women from porn just because they’re physically small.

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Is there 100% concrete proof tho? Can there even be on psychological topics? It’s super hard.

Which is just perfect for law makers. In my opinion it has a neutral effect. It does not prevent abuse directly, but mostly just improves the life of certain people. You can of course take this and support your theory since happy humans are much less likely to commit crimes.

“Happiness can be gathered from other things, too. Why risk it?” Is what they would counter with.

Since this thread is about dolls tho;

This recent study came to the conclusion that there is no connection between these dolls and abuse. What a shocker, as if humans function so dumb and simple.

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This will never not be funny to me. Like, it frankly doesn’t matter if a person straight-up looks like a kid. If they literally aren’t, then it’s immoral to stop them from doing porn. If that’s what these grown adult women want, let them. Anything else is size discrimination…

I remember hearing a case of a man who was accused of being involved in CSAM. The videos used against him were porn vids of him with a petite, childlike pornstar. The pornstar herself had to rush to his defense and prove that she was of age. Thank God for her showing up when she did!

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My personal favorite was when they (can’t remember which group exactly, maybe NCOSE, but don’t quote me on that) wanted to ban ponytails in porn because children sometimes wear ponytails. Like…by that logic…you’d just have to ban everything

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Really? Banning adults from wearing pony and pigtails? Might as well shave the Goddamn hair off their heads! That is some unironically authoritarian nonsense. “All women must have their hair styled only in state-approved manners.” Can’t make this shit up…!

I’m a guy with long hair, I wear my hair in a ponytail! If the ponytail ban is gender neutral, I’d literally be affected by this and either have to forego tying my hair or just cut it off! All because the state says so…

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The age of someone does not matter in a lot of countries. Like a lot, pretty much the whole of Europe definetly. If someone looks young then they are a child abuse victim by law. America is probably the only country that even comes to mind where it’s different. Nobody cares tho.

Imagine being an asian adult charged for your own pics and having them being put in court documents and a database with real children. Jesus.

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Yes, this demonstrates the absurdity of these laws banning fiction in “da name of da children!!” Pretty much any porn has to depict tall muscular dudes that look masculine (lest feminine features in a male add youthfulness) and all female actors must be in their 40s, anything below could be too low and anything too high is too old and obscene (absurd!). But wait! There is another camp that says women should not be objectified and therefore not shown in porn. So we are left with… nothing! No porn. No dolls, child or adult-like. Nothing. You must find a partner and have sex when they want it only. Masturbation is evil and objectifies people. Sounds pretty bleak if you ask me, and sounds suspiciously like puritanical thought from back in the 13 colonies day.
But wait, there is more! If you are ugly, poor, stupid, or have some kind of disability that makes it unlikely you will attract someone as a male? You are fucked! You are royally fucked because not only can you not fap to anything, but you also can’t fuck anyone!

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Yeah, this study is one that demonstrates no link between doll ownership and CSA. One out of many. And it’s common sense. Just because you own a doll and you screw it doesn’t mean you are going to screw others.

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Or that you have any less understanding of consent. Understanding inanimate objects don’t need to consent is completely irrelevant to how you interact with real people

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Exactly. People who advocate for bans seem to have this weird voodoo animistic belief that if you behave bad towards inanimate objects you will do so with real people. No. It doesn’t work like that. I can shoot and kill Cell from dragon ball z for pleasure, and it doesn’t mean I would do that with a real person. It’s not the same!

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One of my favorite Prostasia Tweets is relevant here

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It’s abuse because these people think every toaster is alive or something, like the little toaster from the cartoon movies.

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Wait, you shoot in DBZ?

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You shoot beams or ki blasts

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What a lot of people fail to realize about treatment and recovery regarding paraphilic disorders is that for the treatments to work they require confidence, that the individual believe in them, and have a reason to believe in them.

These outlets, specifically in the realm of sex dolls and virtual/simulated child pornography, allow their owners to reconcile their impulses and deepest desires with the reality that they should not be acted on in ways that involve real children. That idea has been consistently validated throughout the years, hence why roughly 50% of clinicians support them, and the number is growing.

In my view, the viewpoint itself that these devices may reinforce or increase risk is what may be causing this. I’ve always thought of motivation as a series of underlying layers of ideals or concepts that support one another, and the more I read into this, the more it begins to make sense.

I’ve been seeing moralist rhetoric slowly inch its way into the realm of sexuality and paraphilia research, I’m talking purely awful studies with absolutely zero basis for their conclusions, bankrolled by shell orgs puppeted by conservative and religious interest groups who seek to have their preferences validated so that way people remain convinced. I’m not one to criticize studies directly, I prefer to let other studies do that for me and let the evidence and results speak for themselves. But this shouldn’t go unnoticed, and those who are well-versed in this know what they’re reading.

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Like I said, like my vampire player characters, I mock any notion of a “cure”.

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