Child-like sex dolls: legal, empirical, and ethical perspectives

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/384432301_Child-like_sex_dolls_legal_empirical_and_ethical_perspectives

The study is written in english. It is from September 2024 by the Institute of Forensic Psychiatry and Sexual Research in Essen.

individuals with pedo-/hebephilic interests had a significantly stronger desire (79.2%) for doll ownership compared to teleiophilic participants (20–40%). In a further comparison between pedo-/hebephilic people with and without dolls, the tendency or arousal towards hypothetical child sexual abuse was found to be lower in doll owners. This was true even after adjustment for higher self-reported sexual attraction to children and objectifying behavior.

[…]

Pedo-/hebephilic users primarily turned to dolls due to unfulfillable atypical sexual interests with humans, occasionally stating a decrease in their sexual interest in real children after using dolls
[…]
In conclusion, current data do not indicate that virtual partnership and sexuality with child-like sex dolls increase a risk for real-life child sexual abuse.

So yeah, study after study saying the same thing. It is amazing that society puts morals above the protection of children.

She argues that this marks a new phase in anti-liberal criminal policy, where the distinction between law and morality is increasingly being eroded. This shift, she contends, essentially seeks to elevate the threat of punishment as an expression of state-imposed moral policy.

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I am just going to say it: Even if child sex dolls become legal, it’s very unlikely for them to actually increase the child sex abuse rate.

Let’s start by the fact that most pedophiles aren’t going to own them. A high quality doll is expensive and the average person can’t buy one. So it already eliminates the majority of pedophiles (specially poor ones) of having sex with them. So only the ones with better financial lives are going to have them.

Second, I would like to add that child abuse (not just sexual one) is a structural problem. Often related with very disfuncional family dynamics, family hierarchy and etc. The pedophiles only get advantage of something that is structural. Many families don’t teach their children boundaries, many families make jokes about grabbing the child’s genital, many family don’t teach the child to say no, in fact, they often force the child to do something that they don’t want to do only for the sack of pleasing a family member. It’s a problem related to the social hierarchy between the way the family treats children, the lack of information on child sexual abuse, the fact that many family aren’t prepared to have children but still have one, the religious background and etc. A few people buying dolls (As said before, they aren’t going to be the majority) will not change such background. If a person wants to abuse children in the current state of time, they sure will. No doll incentives them to do so.

The claim that dolls increase it is stupid, they talk about feeding paraphilia, like dude, what are you feeding? You can’t feed something that you are born with. It’s like saying that a homosexual guy is feeding his sexuality by masturbating to gay porn, that’s not a thing. If you believe in feeding paraphilias, you will have to admit that pedophilia is curable and that you can be less attracted to children by consuming nothing related to them. Thing is, that’s not a thing. It’s impossible. Because pedophiles are born like this due to genetics. The idea that a man will offend because of doll is just so…ugh. Dude, why would someone pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars on something just to go after actual children? I believe ruining kid’s lives is cheaper, no? That’s also taking away the responsibility the sex offender has in what they did, because you are blaming a doll rather than the individual.

Also, the normalization claim is nauseous. People CAN tell the difference between a doll and a real child. Dolls are supposed to be the idealization of what a pedophile finds sexy on little ones, so much that many of them have idealized clothes and hair. Real children often don’t have those clothes, they aren’t always smelling good or are they always dressed up, in fact they are often messy and dirty due to the fact that they play around a lot. Hell, even their clothes are clothes that children usually wouldn’t wear. They are completely idealized models of what a pedophile find attractive on children. It’s the same with adult sex dolls, they have flat stomachs, big butts, big breasts and wide hips. Real women don’t look like that unless they had lots of surgeries. Hell, often their faces don’t even resemble the average women’s face, often they look like aliens. Same with child sex dolls, at least the majority of them. Dolls don’t normalize anything, no fictional outlet normalizes any action, because the human mind can tell the difference between fiction and reality. Pedophiles who engage in such acts with dolls know that children in real life DON’T act or look like that. So, how are they normalizing anything if they aren’t even realistic representations to begin with?

Also, even if they did increase the pedophile urges to act on their attraction, that’s only for why pedophiles shouldn’t own them, not why they should be illegal and criminalized. It doesn’t make any sense to arrest people who have bought the dolls because the dolls may lead them further harm. Regardless of everything, dolls are objets. They are personal property, not a reason for why we should ban them. It’s no different than banning drugs, alcohol or guns for that matter. Sure, they may increase the individual to become violent and addicted, but wouldn’t it better if instead of arresting the individual because they were consuming them, we got them to therapy and started to talk with them and try to understand what lead to them to use it on the first place? Baning dolls is just as useless as banning drugs and guns. You are punishing an individual for the potential of doing something bad, not for something they have actually done. That’s not fair and unethical. Pedophiles are going to find a way to satisfy their sexual desires, trust me and the way they find it can be far more damaging than dolls. Like CSAM.

Talking about CSAM, it was proven that it doesn’t increase the pedophile’s tendencies of sexually assaulting children. It’s logical to assume that if actual child abuse material with actual children didn’t increase the pedophile’s tendencies to abuse them, then sure idealized children won’t.

Long text, but I really wanted to share my two cents cuz I’ve been thinking about that a lot and I found the opportunity to share my thoughts. :stuck_out_tongue:

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BRAVISSIMA!!! :clap: :raised_hands: :clap: :raised_hands: :clap: :raised_hands: :clap: :raised_hands: :clap:

I could not have put it better myself! Your small essay should be shared with anybody and everybody who thinks banning lolicon/dolls/etc. is the right or smart thing to do.

Fr, one of the best comments on this forum. Every single user here should heart this and remember it. Sincerely amica, thank you :pray:!!!

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Everything you said I agree with, also science and every prevention organization agrees that CSA is most prevalent in families. According to a study from the Netherlands around 80% of CSA is committed by people with no pedophilic interests even tho 90% of CSAM consumers are pedophiles. So there clearly is no transition from consumption of pornography to CSA thus this should apply to victimless outlets as well.

Also, even if dolls should become legal in some countries again; you can almost guarantee that people who seek, or own them will get raided on suspicion of child pornography. Since law enforcement will argue that you perhaps came across realistic depictions of children due to the product images perhaps displaying genitalia, or it being shown of in an erotic way - or because you could have taken incriminating images of a doll.

Dolls will always be a risk due to the majority of countries banning realistic depictions of children, so if studies prove that a doll is not increasing CSA then such depictions will neither. These two topics go hand-in-hand.

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I’ve argued for years that one will no sooner confuse a doll for a person than expect for a doll to eat breakfast.

Currently, I have a post on X that goes as follows.

"It’s no more normal to ascribe human rights to a doll than it is to expect for a doll to eat breakfast.

The narrative to proscribe doll ownership is profoundly absurd."

I’ll make this a short addition to this thread.

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To clarify a few things, they ARE legal in most places. Only a few countries (Great Britain and any British colony) have banned them. A few states so far. Most of us are hoping other states or the federal gov. doesn’t bother with them. Laws like these are unconstitutional. They’re based on fear and suppositions.

Dolls are not people. Ascribing rights to them is akin to saying you have to ask your cars, appliances, and machinery if you may use them first. You’ll never get an answer. Children have the rights to grow up protected and without being traumatized. They’re alive. Dolls aren’t. They’re just things meant to represent what’s either missing in our lives or to fulfill a fantasy that is unattainable for caring, decent people irl.

You’d be surprised who owns dolls. They are no more harder to buy than a good musical instrument. Much less than any motorcycle or motorsport vehicle (ATVs and snowmobiles, etc.) Most of the people I know who have them are MAP. A few people have bought them to ease their pain of grieving for a dead child. I call them surrogates. They fill the empty places in our hearts. I know it sounds foreign. I’ve had a continuous struggle to understand as to why these inanimate objects bring me happiness and joy? But they saved me from desperate loneliness and despair.

Not everyone gets the experience of a "normal life’. Meets the right girl. Gets married. Raises a family. Has a good solid career. No. Many people have come from abusive and dysfunctional homes. Some are victims themselves. They choose the doll over ever victimizing someone else.

I’ve found within our doll community that they do lessen the desire for pornography in general. The dolls are made to order, customizable as far as you want to take it and can afford. They are the ideals that we find attractive. School uniforms, anime and movie characters, dressing them as any kid would dress or making them look super formal and pretty! We end up spending more money within a few years than we spent on the doll just on her clothes! Whether people use them for masturbation or not is up to them. Many people indulge their fetishes with them. In every instance, never harming another person, EVER! With no desire to.

I’ve said this many times and in many places on this forum. I can say with certainty, that true predators have zero interest in dolls. We’ve seen a few come into the community, buy a doll, and within a few months, get rid of the doll and leave. They quickly lose interest. They’re only interest is in seeing the emotional response of a real person while they violate them. It’s very sickening to even talk about.

I don’t recall when and where I saw the article, or when they did this? In Czechoslovakia they legalized all CSAM for a time. The cases of child abuse went down to almost nothing. Criminalizing dolls is like criminalizing, I don’t know, a painter, an artist. Saying because he paints pictures there’s a chance he could paint graffiti on a public building or a train car. Or worse, create a nude painting of a child! Who did he hurt?

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Not that I don’t understand the sentiment, but you make it sound like these people who lose interest in dolls are all invariably violent child rapists. Methinks it’s rather a matter of not being able to be emotionally fulfilled by an emotionless doll. Emotion can often play a very important role in sexuality/romance. You ain’t getting that from a hunk of silicone or a drawing. I’ve spoken to @Chie about this before, and I vehemently disagree with his logic that an exclusive sexual attraction to actual real children can be “redirected” towards fictional materials. If you could alter a person’s sexual interests like this, pedophilia wouldn’t fucking exist. Cuz it’s fucking conversion therapy, which is literally classified as psychological torture and doesn’t fucking work :person_shrugging:. Same reason I don’t trust cognitive behavioral therapy, it’s conversion therapy with a fancy name and I ain’t playing that game.

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So you’re saying a romantic relationship is something you feel is what you desire? I’m not saying possibly many of us do but for many of us we know that’s not a possibility and definitely not something that will last. Which leaves, yes, the “other” people that have no desire for romance. Just rape. They want to see fear.
For most of us the doll will fill that fantasy perfect. Likely I agree with Chie. Mine are my girlfriend (She’s a 158cm D cup) and my children. One of which is a likeness of Chi, the anime character.

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Some like dolls, and some don’t. Neither case is an indicator of evil.

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Also, not everyone who buys or wants a CLSD is necessarily a pedophile either. People choose those dolls for multiple reasons.

Easier to carry (esp. important for people with dwarfism), fetish (size-difference), and exploring taboo fantasies (like how incest porn exists).

Also, as someone who is fictosexual; I prefer a completely fictional partner. It is just something I enjoy more. I would want to have the creative freedom how my doll looks like. This is one key sex appeal of fiction. It is basically limitless and exactly what you desire.

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I also forgot to mention that. Thanks for putting it here.

Also, fully agree with you, the best part of having sex with non real people is the fact that you can shape them whoever you please. You can make them have your desired hair, size, skin color, wear them in the exact clothes you want, you can make them wear make up or not, you can make them look exactly how you want.

Also, as fictional people don’t have rights, there’s no limits for fantasies! There’s no limit for whatever you want to do with them or write or draw about them. It’s so good man.

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I heard news about someone killing themselves after being convicted of possessing a CLSD, because tending to her was a major component in their life. It is fascinating how cruel people can be to living, breathing human beings while claiming to be the good guys.

Never have I been THIS disgusted at a law. It goes much deeper into someones personal life than prosecuting for fictional porn. You know why? Because a CLSD is not necessarily sexual in nature. A person does not need to ever have used the doll for any sexual purpose. Also, “sexual purpose” is impossible to define since a “sexual act” is not limited to penetration. Any doll can thus be illegal since kissing, rubbing etc. is possible.

It is the literal ban of a fantasy, or potential fantasy depending on who possesses it. It is hard to put in words since it is such an abstract of a ban.

A ban on CLSD is the quintessence of thought policing. One has to simply posses a doll to go to prison for perhaps years. It is the thought that they could do something sexual to it despite not doing so, or even planning to. The fact that it could happen is enough.

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If anyone here is affected by a CLSD ban then all I can say is that it will most likely not change. Fictional porn has been illegal for centuries in many places. The same places that proud themselves in democratic values such as freedom.

If you live someplace where it is illegal then chances are it will not change in your lifetime.

I knew this and moved abroad. Not everyone can do this, but if you have the possibility of doing so then consider it. Imprisoning yourself and your harmless desires is not what life is about. It surely was not for me.

Anyways, I will be leaving this forum once again, but delete my Account this time (if possible idk). Insane that I registered here all the way back in 2021. Honestly, ever since I put time and effort into this subject it has drained me and made me unhappy. Now there is a feeling of guilt on top. Knowing what others have to go through and I know that me being on here is just complaining while achieving nothing. I left to be happy and not think about these shitty laws and people.

Leave your country (prison) if you can and do not make yourself a prisoner.

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I’ve never heard of anyone Killing themselves over it, but I sure have heard of people who told me that it saved them. I fully believe in them. Sometimes the use of dolls (not just sexual ones) have sure been important to help people out on many other things rather than sexual. Once, I’ve heard of a dude who lost his entire family (wife and children) so naturally he decided to create his own fake family with dolls. If it wasn’t for the dolls, he sure would be dead.

Yeah and that’s why it’s irrational. It’s irrational to arrest people for the mere possiblity of doing something, specially something harmless like fucking dolls.

I have been considering that for a while. As I am fluent in English I could go to a country which speaks it. I want to be a polyglot. The problem is money. I need to have enough money to move abroad.

You sure were one of the people with the best arguments on this forum, it’s such a bummer that you had to leave. But your mental health matters way more. your mental health is the most important thing in this world. Being happy is all you need on your short time in this world. Well, I hope you achieve that. If you ever going to return, you will be welcomed. If you don’t, well at least everyone here understands.

∧,∧ ∧,∧
( ̳• · • ̳)( ̳• · • ̳ )
/ づC \

Bye-bye, hope things better to you.

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It will be sad to see you go. I’ve always valued your input. You have nothing to feel guilty about, it is the law that must change, not you. You managed to escape! Be happy about that, not ashamed. Keep your heart full of hope for those of us trapped in places like the USA (especially right now, after President Musk’s little stunt on inauguration day (let’s be real, he’s the man in charge, Trump is his puppet)).

I hope you can find it in yourself to return someday, even after deleting your account. May we all know peace. Much love, Giacobbe :people_hugging::heart:.

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This is the eternal issue.

“Don’t like where you live? Just move!”

Not that easy. The world is made of arbitrary borders, and it costs so much to cross them. Money is the root of evil. Living should be free!

I’m very lucky to be born and raised in a blue state. Woe to those trapped in red states, where porn and abortion are banned, causing untold horror as rates of abuse and death climb sharply…

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I didn’t lose my family. I never had one and I wanted my beautiful wife and family and it just never happened. Makes you feel like the eternal loser! Never many girlfriends or prospects. The ones that did come my way were no one I was remotely interested in even dating. No. They were just, no. So when I discovered adult sex dolls, I wasn’t all that interested in having sex with them as I was in having a beautiful girlfriend I could love.

Then finding the smaller ones I thught why not? I could just make my own family. Even if they were fictional. I was about ready to check out and the dolls saved me! They have filled that void in my life on my own terms without the “messiness” that comes with real life. Everyone needs to find what makes them happy.

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Everyone needs happiness and everyone who judges and wants to stop others from being happy suck. I agree with you

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Here’s an article another doll owner found recently. Talks about research done with doll owners. How dolls have a positive influence on them. How they help against the desires for CSAM and offences against children.

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Don’t forget that most countries that ban dolls also categorize cartoons and dolls as CSAM. That means the claim of CSAM and dolls is inconclusive.