France demands EU-wide ban on CLSD

Criminal justice
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SHEIN, a chinese company, has opened their first local store in France and on their website they “accidentally” offered CLSD which immediately led to public protests and outrage. The company will provide the information of every buyer of these dolls to law enforcement.

France is now demanding that the EU must introduce a widespread ban on any pornographic content featuring minors including CLSD.

Would be nice if Germanys supreme court could finally rule on the ban of these dolls, so that there is precedence in the EU.

EU digital spokesperson Thomas Regnier told reporters: “The sale of childlike sex dolls is extremely concerning.”

“We do not want to see these products being offered to European citizens,” he added.

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I really hate that wording. “We do not want to see". Not whether or not anyone will actually be tangibly harmed but “wah, icky; we don’t wanna”… And a bunch of hicks will agree with them.

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Yeah, they are not really different to the nations who prosecute LGBT.
There is really no reason in hating and jailing someone for exploring their sexuality in a victimless way with no actual children involved.

Since there is no change in politics to be expected (despite the science being clearly in favor of outlets - as of now) our only hope is Germany and their court. I think some people realize that the court might trash the law, so even a AfD blogger who wrote about the news above told me this via mail a few days ago:

Me:

Do you see any problem with §184l of the German Criminal Code from a constitutional point of view? A short “yes” or “no” is enough.

Response:

Haven’t thought about it yet, in a way yes. Someone wrote to me today that a constitutional complaint against it is already pending. It could concern, for example, artistic freedom or the question of which legal interest is protected at all. Or legal certainty.

Greetings,
(Name)

It is good that even in this spectrum the complaints are known. It will definitely generate a lot of news when the decision is announced. Might change many peoples views.

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Here is a great article on this matter:

Really easily digestable since he uses financial examples to make a great point.

Making “childlike” sex dolls illegal brings their “price,” in non-monetary terms, closer to the “price” of actually molesting a child. That, to at least some degree, incentivizes potential child molesters to become actual child molesters.

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Finally! Someone with the ability to use their brain speaks the reality of banning fictional outlets for people. Nice work!

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I think it is too late. You cannot stop the moral panic train when it comes to anything related or associated with pedophilia. EU-Parliament already put out a press statement and will vote on a resolution highlighting that these products shall not be offered in the EU:

@Chie
Is there any ex-Prostasia member or a follow-up Org that can contact the EU?

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Sorry for the late reply.

I can’t name any off the top of my head, but if I find someone I’ll let them know.

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Thanks. Here is the agenda with some statements already up.

Protecting EU consumers against the practices of certain e-commerce platforms: the case of child-like sex dolls, weapons and other illegal products and material

Left Group (Left-wing)

  1. Condemns in the strongest possible terms the sale of child-like sex dolls, weapons and other illegal products and material on e-commerce platforms such as Shein, Temu, AliExpress, Wish, and Amazon, notably on their marketplaces;

PfE Group (Far-Right)

the manufacture and marketing of sex dolls resembling children reflects an intrinsic paedocriminal intent, in that they are designed to simulate and trivialise sexual acts involving children; whereas their mere existence constitutes a form of child pornography and a trivialisation of sexual crimes committed against minors

ECR Group (Right-wing):

Stresses that such child-like sex dolls cannot be considered a harmless outlet but are a facilitator that conditions predators and perpetrators to commit real acts against children; recalls that experts in child protection consider such products to be training or progressive conditioning for at-risk individuals;

So pretty much every political spectrum repeats the same lies and nobody is there to show the actual evidence. All these claims have been disproven by literally every study conducted. It is honestly frustrating that people can just lie when it comes to anything related to pedophilia. The current facts suggest that the positions above will only increase CSA. If they truly would care for children they would not ignore the evidence and or suggest more research.

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Just the word “paedocriminal” is a misnomer. Being a pedophile is not criminal and not illegal. That’s why words like “rapist”, “molester”, and “predator” are there. “Predator” being akin to stalking. Those are the "no-no"s!

They surmise the design as “..to simulate and trivialise sexual acts involving children..”. Which is also a blind leap off a cliff. Disregarding anyone else’s reasons for owning one.
This second part of that sentence is no less egregious. “..their mere existence constitutes a form of child pornography and a trivialisation of sexual crimes committed against minors.” “A form of child pornography”?? Really?? Keeping my doll dressed in cute clothes is “cp”?? Hmm??? Never "using’ my doll for said purpose is an automatic lie then?? What a load of manure!!

So all the more reason to go after anime and cartoons and fictional content of course.

I’m fairly sure predators don’t need any kind of “training” or “conditioning”. They’re already willing to go after a real child. They have no interest in dolls. Throw that excuse away. :wastebasket:
There are many more researchers who have done actual studies and have concluded otherwise. That CLSDs are a much better option for those it satifies. Keeping those people from desiring to go after a real child. Keeping children safe.

These people are morality alarmists running around like Chicken Little!! Shoving their idealistic beliefs down everyone’s throat. No different than the way the woke trans movement was shoved in everyone’s face; that has finally quieted down. I don’t care what you want to be or who you prefer to sleep with. Either you have dangly bits or you don’t down there. Use the appropriate restroom or a general single one and stfu!!

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The issue I’m noticing is an overt lack of actual knowledge with regard to how these dolls, and their consumers, actually function.

The mere fact that these dolls DO function as outlets in a significant portion of their userbase should be enough to garner pause from any statesman concerned with addressing the issue of child sexual exploitation and abuse without intruding into the private lives or interests of their citizens.

Whether people are willing to accept this fact or not, it’s all but settled that the path forward to addressing CSE at scale is reconciling a sexual interest in children with the practice of encouraging non-offending by way of clinical outreach compounded with enabling the use of outlets.

You can’t change people’s interests. This is just how they are. What you can do is change how they may go about satisfying their interests.

Give them child-like sex dolls.
Give them virtual/simulated/fictional child pornography.
Provide them with access to clinical resources that they can trust.

These dolls save actual children.

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I believe that there is genuine fear in certain industries and parties from pedophiles having their human rights and sexuality recognized. Nowadays a lot of powergrabs are justified with “child protection”. Thousands of organizations who receive gov. and community funding to “fight pedophilia” etc. There is an entire eco-system who profits from this stigma and unjustice.

Politicians need an enemy everyone hates and can point to, industries/lobby groups need an enemy to leverage themselves as heros who simply want to protect our childen from monsters. Recognizing that CSA is a very complex problem and not a “pedophilic” crime is hard, because anyone who does not align with these fears “normalizes pedophilia” or “triviliazes CSA/CSAM”. You can really notice this in Germany where everyone is currently attacking a pedophile group that is strictly against all forms of child sexual abuse and romantic relationships with children, but for legalizing all forms of fiction. There is also a pedophile group who advocates for sex with children and legalizing real CP. Nobody cares about them. This shows me that they are genuinely afraid of pedophiles having their basic rights acknowledged since the latter groups goal is hopeless anyways, so there is no need to “fight” them.

The only thing that can stop this moral panic are people who are brave enough to speak up and present the actual evidence, or courts. I doubt any politician is going to defend these dolls. There is just too big of a stigma and interest groups who lie about the facts and need to signal boost for more cloud. I hope that the constitutional court of Germany can bring reason into this awful discussion.

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Here are some more delusional statements from the debate:

Virginie Joron: What is the purpose of the Digital Services Act? Instead of tracking down and banning illegal products, he censored the Patriots. We block sovereignist accounts, we hunt down ill-meaning tweets, but we let Shein sell sex dolls of girls to pedophiles. What are Brussels’ priorities? Suppressing freedom rather than protecting our children?

This is me when I confuse a piece of plastic for a child.

Saskia Bricmont: Shein is pushing the scandal of immorality by selling weapons and dolls for pedophiles.

A group of humans - known as pedophiles - exist and will continue to exist until the end of time are being sold victimless products designed for “them”. Truly immoral. Let us hunt and deny them of their basic rights, because we find them disgusting and are in the majority. Truly a godsend of pure moral.

Leila Chaibi: The sordid case of child pornography dolls is just the umpteenth episode in a long series: smoke detectors that detect nothing, carcinogenic balloons, dangerous toys…

Imagine listing a piece of plastic into the same products that actually physically harm humans by either not working, or containing unsafe materials. When morality is worse than proven health risks.

Jean-Marc Germain (S&D): Madam President, Commissioner, ladies and gentlemen: counterfeiting, human exploitation, environmental disaster, tax evasion, category A weapons and now child pornography: the list of horrors is endless. This case of child pornography dolls is not a simple accident, it is the mark of a system. A system that tramples on our values, workers and our planet.

A piece of plastic is officially worse than human exploitation.

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Now that China has started investigating these alleged child protection violations, all we can do in the doll community is hope they’re just putting on a show for the European Puritans. There’s billions of dollars at stake for the Chinese either way. Either they lose total economic foothold in the EU. They lose the doll revenue overall. Or they lose the doll revenue and most of the economic foothold in the EU regardless. And now the U.S Christian conservatives have jumped onboard this crazy train as well.

They’re all offended by the perverse ideas they project onto these dolls. The dolls themselves haven’t harmed anyone. Of course one could argue they could be used in coercive ways by real creeps. But there hasn’t been any case as of yet whereby a victim has claimed the creep used a doll to convince them to have sex. Maybe one day one will claim that happened, but I highly doubt it.

That Florida woman was outraged by discovering them and baited everyone with her lies. Trying to garner media attention like those Aussie cunts! The doll in question had been around for years before she setup that phony picture claiming they copied her daughter’s likeness. So forget that BS!

They’re not “practice rape” dolls either. Rapists and molesters have existed throughout history without “practice” dolls. So chuck that shit in the can! :wastebasket:

Any real predator is not about to invest the money into a doll. Or the time to care for it. It takes too much effort for someone like that. Even if they did, they wouldn’t take care of it. The doll would likely freak a kid out with it’s messed up hair, derpy eyes, missing eyelashes, bent fingers, and would basically end up looking like the dog dragged it through the yard.

True doll owners love their dolls more than any risk to them acting out or harming a child. Pedophiles love children too much to willfully traumatize them. Molesters and rapists are mislabeled as pedophiles. They are not! They are molesters and rapists who either stalk their victims or find they have opportunity to act out. Destroying that young person’s life forever.

They ARE the predators! Not doll owners in any sense of the meaning. Even if the creep has one, to them it’s just a fuck toy. Doesn’t satisfy their sociopathic cravings. They could care less about it. All this crap about dolls being the problem is just lunacy! The predators are still out there no matter what.

The innocence and magic of childhood is what I find many of us to miss the most. For some, it is actual childhood trauma due to some creep(s). The idea of anything else is what may drive some of the attraction. But it’s the idea, not the act. Hence the premise of Prostasia. Any actual act that would lead to destroying that child would be devastating to us.

What’s happened in the past is reforms are demanded or economic sanctions will take place. The reforms are done, and then the party demanding the reforms, reneges on their phony promises and still enacts some level of economic sanctions anyway. It’s called being a brat. Or as adults say, a little bitch liar!

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European Council apparently wants to keep production and possession of hyperrealistic synthetic material legal in the EU, but the parliament is against it describing it as a dangerous loophole. How? If everything is illegal in the same sense then CSAM and fiction will just get mixed up since there is no legal incentive.

In a documentary some experts just claim, with no proof, that AI is dangerous and encourages CSA. While on their own website they say “there is no evidence that allows us to comment on this”. Disgusting behaviour.

I always ask myself; have these people heard of Japan? One of the safest countries on the planet? Where is all the child rapes and abuse these guys are fearing?

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The illegal stuff should remain illegal. Cheese is bad for everyone involved. Human traficking is ignored for the most part because it doesn’t grab outrage as much as “crime”.

“protecting children” is the preferred outrage!

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No one actually believes the gateway narrative. It’s a pretext. As is well known, the reason for doll laws is hate. There is no evil to punish for. Evil simply does not encompass how someone handles a doll. This is a think crime. That’s one reason doll laws in the US implicate the First Amendment.

There are mentions of societal backlash, but ordinary people do not care about what doll someone has or about how someone handles a doll. The activists know this.

The narratives assert that because it’s wrong to treat a person as they were a doll, it’s wrong to treat a doll as though it were a doll. The comparison is akin to comparing throwing a doll into a dumpster to throwing a baby into a dumpster. How someone handles a doll does not compare to the evil the activists seek to associate it with.

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Here is the proposal regarding a ban on dolls:

(11a) Member States may also pay particular attention to the production and marketing of child-
like sex dolls or sex robots, that give reason for concerns. These objects that represent a
child are intended to be used for sexual purposes. Member States are encouraged to
criminalise child-like sex dolls or sex robots, giving due regard to the dangers that these
objects may pose.

As well as a suggestion on updating the definition of CSAM to include dolls:

realistic images, reproductions or representations* of a child […]

“reproductions, or representations” is then explained in a footnote to include dolls:

*A recital with a more detailed explanation of what this notion contains and excludes will be
added, with reference to child-like sex robots and dolls. Some delegations still call for the
addition of an individual provision criminalising child-like sex robots and dolls.

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All of this is because these assholes believe pedophilia is a crime. It’s not. You can’t tell anyone that though. They don’t want to hear that. Rape and molestation is a crime, not attractions. To them, attraction is the same thing as predatory behavior. Complete opposites. Like being LGBTQ+ is a crime too. Really?

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They’re literally interested in prosecuting thought crimes over actual harm. That’s why Cuties can get away with using actual child actors because the producers can just say that the movie was written to “criticize pedophilia”. In other words, it’s the same nonsense as saying that the “good guys” can do anything to achieve that “goodness”, while the side preemptively labeled “evil” cannot do anything.

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