This is great news! A job well done for Germany.
We should focus back on the main problem: physical actions toward or involving other people. Everything else beyond this point does not matter. Every other subject that is at all relatable this topic has a valid counter claim on both sides. Some things apply to some people, some things don’t apply at all to other people, and it is improper to merge both of these types of people together as if they are the same, no matter what subject, and no matter what topic.
This is the one thing we all have in common: People cannot affect other people with their minds alone. There must be an action directed toward or involving a person in order for them to become affected. This is the non-debatable heart of the topic.
There are people who have no self-control and fall into the irrationalities of addiction, cravings, and urges who become severely more influenced by their indulges than other people. The influence of fiction is not inherently bad. Cartoons, movies, books, drawings, and ideas cannot inherently be evil because they are passive, not active. There is an underlining mental health issue with some people to act with a total disregard of consequence, that is present regardless of being influenced by consumed fiction.
We can definitely ban the passive influences, but we will still have the same problems. We have banned drugs, and we still have drug abuse and overdose problems. We can ban all artwork, computers, internet, and television, and we will still have all of these problems.
In my own bias opinion, we do not seem to be nearly as interested in reduction and prevention by education and rehabilitation as we are with banning things just to throw people into prison and rid society of them. We don’t seem to know what else to do. This is a huge human rights problem that has manifested in trying to solve other human rights problems.
I still believe we can do better than this, though.
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Less real CP floating around, the better. Why can’t people just stick to 2D cartoons or harmless CGI, I’ll never know.
We should start a hashtag or something, akin to #mangaisnotacrime, but like #keepit2D or #stayharmless.
This is like asking why a legitimate sexual sadist can’t just get off to BDSM. Sorry, not everyone’s attracted to cartoons. I imagine the vast majority of IRL pedophiles get no gratification whatsoever from the fake stuff. Like how most lolicons aren’t pedophiles, most pedophiles are NOT lolicons! They want to feel flesh and taste sweat from the real deal, and a cg cartoon isn’t gonna provide that. A silicone doll will never fully do it for them either. Hell, ageplay with a pubescent-passing adult isn’t gonna cut it; that knowledge that they’re fucking a mere actor will take them right outta the experience. They need a real kid, something they can’t have because of the exploitation and potential harm that brings. In a just world, either pedophilia wouldn’t exist or children would be capable of consent, but alas, 仕方がない!
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You’re equating pedophilia to sadism, which is simply wrong. In fact, the majority of pedophilic individuals are more than satisfied with fictional outlets which will cause no harm to real children, or put themselves in legal jeopardy.
Groups such as VirPed (Virtuous Pedophiles), an anti-contact pedophile community, have been the subject of scientific study with regard to how their users have been able to satisfy themselves with fictional outlets.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1079063220965953
While it may be true that not all lolicons are pedophilic, simply ‘being’ pedophilic does not necessarily mean they can’t be sated with fictional cartoons, CGI imagery, or even child-like sex dolls.
While it’s unfortunately true that not all pedophilic individuals can satisfy themselves with these types of outlets, it does prove to have value for a vast majority whose preferences fall in-line with these materials, and more research is being conducted to investigate who, how, and to what extent these materials are used.
Moreover, for those whose preferences do not fall in-line with these fictional outlets, they should be encouraged to find one that does not involve actual children, rather than conflated with sexual predators.
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You’re equating pedophilia to sadism, which is simply wrong.
How so? Sadism, much like pedophilia, is a desire, not an action. If a person’s sadism is so exclusive that they MUST cause actual harm to get off, then recommending BDSM is pointless, as the latter requires consent, negating true harm. The same can be said of pedophiles whose sexual interest in children is so narrow that nothing can substitute it; while they may still choose to never act on it, using fiction is still worthless for them because it literally has no effect on them, none whatsoever.
And what if they can’t find ANY outlet whatsoever? Sexuality is hardly ever exclusive, but it IS hardwired. If an individual is so primary and intensive that NOTHING AT ALL could help them, then what can really be done of it…?
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It’s…complicated, but nothing is impossible. We’re still learning about that and how it works.
Sexuality is as much mental as it is physiological. There are plenty of pedophilic individuals who were initially turned off by the thought of “fictional” or “pretend” child pornography, but after some time, they were able to derive value from it by finding content within that realm which happened to fall within their interests, or their tastes were able to change.
I see. I suppose that makes sense, but I still have doubts. Perhaps more research is required as of yet. If only taboo subjects were actually allowed to be explored by scientists (ethically, of course. Don’t need a Josef Mengele, Unit 731, or MKULTRA situation…)
It has to do with the psychology of desire.
It is believed that if you show someone a pornographic image of a transgender woman who is indistinguishable from a cisgendered woman, and a heterosexual binary man were to consume that image under the belief that the person depicted were a cisgendered woman, they wouldn’t know (or feel) that they were homosexual, or feel any sort of aversion towards the image, unless/until told or shown facts about said woman being transgender.
In our minds, we compartmentalize a great deal of our desires, interests, etc. to a dimension of ‘fantasy’ that is as much mental, artistic and expressive as the act of stimulating oneself is physical.
And it is my personal belief that we have control over that to an extent.
The “Lolicon Guy” Patrick Galbraith goes over it in his 2021 book “The Ethics of Affect”. It may not be wholly relevant to your interests, but when I messaged Mr. Galbraith with questions about his book and previous works, he stated that he actually agreed with me and cited the books “Perv” by Jesse Bering and “Thinking Sex” by Gayle Ruben when asked about how he feels about pedophilic individuals using such materials to compensate for desires towards actual children, which is fine.
These desires will never go away and can happily and safely be explored and engaged with, as well as coexist with the fact that they will never act on them in a way that harms real children.
Desire =/= Intent to commit action.
I don’t recommend you look into these works until after you’re back on your meds and in a more stable mood, however.
You need to be of sound mind when researching, especially if the subject of that research is of particular personal relevance to you, otherwise you might misinterpret things.
Here’s a link where you can freely download his book.
https://www.academia.edu/53044712/The_Ethics_of_Affect_Lines_and_Life_in_a_Tokyo_Neighborhood_full_book_
Here’s an excerpt where he goes over the practices of Comic LO, who include a message directed at pedophilic readers to help them remain happy, safe, and offense-free, and even cites one of the publications more ‘prolific’ artist who is known for his realistic art-style.
Comic LO? Isn’t that where this came from?:
“A lolicon can be cured”
There’s that word again, the c-word.
“Cure”
This is what had me putting a gun to my head all those months ago… The fact that this book was seemingly taunting me by using that word…
I discussed it with someone on AllTheFallen (all quotes are mine):
“This thing tells you to “cure” your lolicon/pedophilia. If you’ve been “cured”, why’re you still here?
Not that you can be “cured” in the first place; conversion’ll only make you repressed and depressed, medication’ll only make you wanna kill yourself (a la Alan Turing), surgery on the brain’s akin to lobotomy, etc.
Like the mafia, you ain’t never gettin’ outta here!”
“ You wanna end up like that poor sap, or Alan Turing, or god-knows-how-many that were “converted”/lobotomized? Forget this nonsense about a “cure”; you’ll only drive yourself insane, as I did. Fell into despair and damn near killed myself. Came close, could feel myself losing consciousness as the belt tightened around my neck. But I didn’t restrain my hands and instinctually managed to free myself. This is why some hangers tie their hands behind their backs before dropping.
In other words: this PSA is completely tone-deaf. Don’t tease me with a “cure”, you Comic LO bastards…”
“ This damn idiotic poster’s making me feel like a piece of shit freak. I was born this way, I’ll die this way. 仕方がない.
My most recent serious attempt was earlier this year, just before my birthday, I think… Like I said, nearly blacked out. Was the closest I’ve ever come to actually ending it. Been sexual since I was 8, been suicidal since elementary. 22 as of this comment.
Sorry, I just REALLY fucking hate the hippy-dippy bs spewed by this image. Crawls up under my skin…
Update, August 5th, 2021:
I nearly shot myself. Fuck, I can’t do this anymore. Why me? What did I do to get stuck with this sickness?
“Life is bitter but it also has sweet parts”
FUCK YOU Comic LO. “Life is bitter” end of line.
Update, August 10th, 2021:
…and now I’ve been hospitalized for suicidal behavior. Fml”
“Cure”
I’ll admit that ‘cure’ is not the best word for this, but please understand that what they mean and how you’re interpreting it are not at all the same.
They don’t mean ‘cure’ like it’ll make your pedophilia disappear. They mean ‘cure’, in the sense that they can help you ease stress and manage any impulses in a more productive way, as well as remaining offense-free.
Like I said, please go back on your medication and calm yourself down before proceeding with this research. You clearly misinterpreted the wrong thing from this, which makes sense, considering it’s a straight translation, and English and Japanese can be difficult to translate effectively.
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#keepitfictional is better
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Wait a moment, now that I think it, this is the same thing my fellow pedophile friend was telling me about!
They’re German, and I saw this news a while back about this massive ring getting caught. I brought it up to them, they said it was big news in Germany. Let me be clear, they agree that pro-contact is wrong, but the way their family and friends spoke of the perpetrators rubbed them the wrong way.
While playing video games with their friends, they discussed how “sick and wrong” it was to even THINK about doing such things, while their family over dinner talked about how they hoped the perpetrators would he torn apart in prison. It made them anxious about their own pedophilia, which they struggle with immensely (though not to the same extent as me, by their own admission).
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Welp, I actually decided to check out that artist highlighted in that excerpt (Machida Hiraku).
Er, you say his artstyle is realistic? From what I saw, I wouldn’t quite say that. You wanna know what WAS realistic?
His writingstyle! TOO realistic! Good God, he plays the abuse pretty fucking straight, doesn’t he?! It made me cry from how upsetting it was to see abuse so realistically depicted! And I’m back on my meds, still made me cry! Jesus!
It’s so odd, cuz devoid of context the art can be titillating (for my tastes), but Christ…!
To quote some comments from those pages that sum it up better than I could ever hope to:
“This actually disgusted me. NTR just pisses me off, but this legitimately made me sick. What in the actual fuck.”
“on some level this is so absurd its somehow funny, if one finds this interesting for any other reason, i might begin to understand why people have such an irrational dislike for all pedophiles”
“This is too real for me. I like the unrealistic anime rape where the girls feel good no matter what”
“Why the fuck did i read this i could tell it would be some nasty shit from the cover art alone and yeat i still read it this is so bad it made my penis retract inside my body and I think the only way to fix it is to read every hentai in my favorites 3 times over.”
“this is fucking sick, even by nhentai standards…”
“I’m always conflicted when I read something like this. It’s fascinating, but it’s hard to imagine being aroused by it. Feels like it should be on an entirely different site for controversial high-art or something. That being said, I’m sure someone gets off to this.”
“Thought to myself: stop reading after the fap is done. You risk to be depressed”
Etc…
Like, I don’t even understand! Why would such upsetting stuff be put in an otherwise straightforward hentai mag? Do they want viewers to feel sick? Is it some kinda reality check to remind about what this does in real life? I dunno and I don’t care, I feel sick with myself now…
Different people have different standards, tastes, and opinions.
Such graphic and detailed storylines are a huge part of helping those with such attractions compartmentalize and experiment with their feelings, understanding and making peace with the reality that governs us all, and thereby remaining offense-free, while to most others, it’s just a matter of preference.
Many people prefer non-realistic storylines that have a ‘happy ending’, while others prefer more ‘hard’ stories which cater to the more ‘dark’ aspects of their preferences, and these stories tend to make that point very clear.
“Not for the faint of heart” is a euphemism one could use.
But none of that changes the fact that it’s still just a fictional story, designed to entertain and indulge, and that fact is well-understood by all who create and consume it. Some argue that such realistic materials may run the risk of exacerbating risk of CSA perpetration those who are predisposed, but such evidence to support that claim is very limited.
Would you not agree with me?
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I agree. Don’t misunderstand, I’m not saying it’s immoral to depict such things, I was merely expressing my in-the-moment disgust and distress. But that’s all it is, my personal feelings. Everyone still has the right to create as they please, as long as no real harm can be proven by their creation.
My apologies if I came across as anti.
Edit: also, good to be back on medication. And I’m seeing my therapist tomorrow! But man, if I cried while on my meds, I shudder to imagine how I would’ve reacted if I was still off them…