Well, I expected that too, because of the dissenting judge. He was the presiding judge in this matter and I know him as a very liberal one. He is like this, because his father was also a judge, but a very harsh one whom he kept arguing with as a kid.
I knew that someone like this has the balls to actually fight for what is right and just. However, it seems that he was only able to convince one judge. It is a tragedy.
I wish I had something positive to say. Anthropomorphism is in full swing in Germany.
Extending human rights to an effigy is anthropomorphism no matter how itâs articulated.
People are already making fun of the complainants. Sigh. I think they do not understand how this is a blow to everyone.
Hell, the court literally just confirmed that masturbation itself can be punishable. Forget the doll. The simple act of masturbation. The dissenting Judge tries to explain how this makes no sense:
There is a clear distinction between masturbating with such dolls in private and an actual sexual assault on children, because any future abusive behavior is based on a further, fundamentally voluntary decision by the respective abuser. This distinction is of decisive importance because it means that masturbation as such does not yetâas required by the Federal Constitutional Court in its established case lawâaffect the sphere or interests of the community âin and of itself,â but only as a result of a further, fundamentally voluntary act of will on the part of the abuser.
Humans are not rational animals. They are rationalizing animals. They will preemptively choose what is âgoodâ and âevilâ based on immediate feeling and then twist or even ignore the facts to âsupportâ that preemptive choice.
Yeah, I think Europe as a whole is screwed. I just read through the whole thing and they essentially deem it permissible to punish every aspect of pedophilic sexuality.
If this goes to the EU court now and gets rejected then fictional material and dolls are essentially at the mercy of the legislators eu-wide.
But hey. At least 50 year old germans can still have consensual sex with 14 year olds. Clown world.
Thank you for the article.
Another that explains some things is here. Child sex doll ban upheld in Germany, but judges divided on evidence ď˝ DPA
Regardless, itâs sad for anyoneâs freedom to be subordinated to how they handle a doll.
What I find fascinating is that the majority of legal experts are siding with the dissenting opinion. They call the majority opinion an overreach.
Dissenting opinions are extremely rare as well (in its 75 years of existence only around 100 decisions have one), so it is great to have it on this decision.
Edit:
It is genuinely exciting to read people shit on the majority opinion like this:
Judge Offenloch sees it differently and explains his reasoning in great detail. He considers this a âmoral decision.â You can also tell by his reasoning that he is a ârealâ judge with a career in the judiciary, not a political figure posing as a judge.
If thatâs the case, then just model the dolls after said 14 year olds⌠Or am I underestimating the development rate of German girls?
Teen dolls (14-17) are not illegal, but where do you draw the line?
The court argues that it is possible to tell if a fleshlight is a childs replica or not. Doubt.
All I can say is that everyone affected should prepare their emigration NOW. Stay away from the EU, because the planned EU-wide ban is now easily coming.
The only thing I know about 14 year old German girls is Asuka from Evangelion, and her boob size is the smallest of the 3 (used to be 2) main girls.
There is currently a shit ton of backlash from big maintream news outlets about this awful decision:
The masturbation behavior of citizens is none of the stateâs business
In a remarkable dissenting opinion, Constitutional Court Justice Thomas Offenloch counters his colleagues by stating that masturbation is the prime example of behavior that falls within the core area of private life.
Everyone should understand that it is extremely dangerous when the state starts regulating the exercise of sexual preferences that, in themselves, do not harm anyone. In a liberal legal system, the state must stay out of the masturbation behavior of its citizens. Itâs none of his business what turns someone on no matter how reprehensible society may find it.
Some are also using the âthey came for x, i did not speakâ analogy:
If and how someone satifies oneself is one of the most intimate secrets of most people. Thatâs none of the stateâs business at first glance. Making regulations here seems absurd at first glance. However, the situation is different when it comes to pedophiles who masturbate using a child sex doll. Can that be allowed? It took less than a year for the then coalition to ban the possession and acquisition of sex dolls with a childlike appearance. There were no public protests. It was against pedophiles.
Not to be sexist or anything, but I genuinely believe that the decision ended up like this, because most of the judges on the second senate are women.
There are 5 women, 3 men. Ruling ended up as 6:2. We know 100% that one of the dissents is Offenloch - a man. I would bet my own life that the other dissent was also a man.
Honestly, I was unsurprised by the decision. Itâs Germany after all. They had a bad relation to fictional material already, so dolls are not that different.
That being said it still makes me sad that there are many governments willing to police peopleâs fantasy lives.
A lot of legal experts are starting to get very riled up though. One therapist of pedophilic clients wrote to me that she had enough and is going to fight publicly for fiction now. Since she is self-funded she gives 0 fucks about her repuation in doing so. This decision seems to be rejected by almost every legal scholar.
They purposefully mis-used the inviolable core of private life, because it would have meant that pedophilia is protected just the same as any other sexuality (minus the abuse).
As Offenloch describes it; there is no room for wiggle, or âwhoâs rights are more in dangerâ type of analysis, because it is inviolable. Even if you can proof with 100% certainty that it increases the risk of child abuse. Still inviolable. You see why they decided to make a âmistakeâ instead?
This is also why Offenloch exclusively only talks about this, because this alone voids the law. You do not even need to consider any other argument. In a new case involving sth. else it will suddenly be used correctly again.
This was sabotage out of cowardness. They even use old classifications to describe pedophilia as an illness. It is so obvious.
The implications of this decision reach far beyond child sex dolls. The court explicitely states that it is the duty of the state to make sure that children do not become the object of the sexuality of adults. The court also argues that violating the physical integrity of pedophiles can be justified, as long as you argue that this may potentially protect children (no proof needed). This is essentially a justification, or even a direct request to forcibly castrate all pedophiles - or at the very least criminalize fantasies and fiction where it is yet legal.
And this is not even limited to pedophiles. The decision makes it clear that even masturbation in private by yourself is not protected from state intervention. Right now Germany is very close to being ruled by the far-right again. When this happens the argument can easily be used to justify the persecution of queer people. The court did not learn from its fatal mistake in the 1950s.
Fun fact: did you know that in Germany, selling you own child carries the exact same punishment as selling a child doll?
Yeah, I think people have not realized yet how far reaching this is. However, we all know that the ban would have - once again - come into effect, but this time through the EU. Then the complainants would have had to file another constitutional complaint. Given the short time in-between and pretty much the same subject matter, there would have been no doubt another victory back-to-back.
However, this would have still been limited to Germany only. Now you, or rather the complainants, have the possibility to not only fight for German pedophiles, but for pedophiles in all of Europe. Should this law get struck down by the ECHR then I think it would even have a ripple effect throughout the world - outside of the EU.
This is a once in a lifetime chance. I am certain that international pedophile groups like VirPed could be very interested in this proceeding given its significance.
Perhaps some international human rights organization can be recruited using the dissenting opinion of Offenloch given that it is not just limited to pedophilic media, so they can tackle this from an angle they find more comfortable. I want to stress that a dissenting opinion, in the US at least, has a very powerful symbolic meaning. Many times in the US Supreme Courts existence there has been dissenting opinions which later became law.
Thatâs why Iâve been saying. One of the âjustificationsâ for punishing âpedophile fantasiesâ over âcannibal fantasiesâ is that there are too many âcases of pedophiliaâ in real life. I can easily flip this on its head and say that that just means there arenât enough cases of cannibalism in real life. All this typing does make me feel hungry, though.
All it takes for evil to misrepresent itself as good or for rhetoric to masquerade as reason, or emotion to masquerade as science, is for those who are competent and informed to remain silent.
We all know that this decision was wrong, and itâs my hope that this can be reconsidered within the German court system following more research.
I hope it is reversed one day. I also hope that when doll cases reach SCOTUS, they donât overturn Ashcroft vs Free Speech Coalition.
I think it will take 20 years minimum. It can only really be corrected through politics, but a EU ban is now coming anyways. These experts are powerless, so yeah.
A victory in front of the EU courts is pretty much a lost cause, because their human rights declaration explicitly allows for discrimination based on moral values.
Good luck changing the opinion of all of Europe JUST after they passed a law like this. We will all be dead by then. Emigration is all that is left and this realization sucks for those who cannot do it.