Is the German Police wrong?

Hey,

someone asked a question regarding Manga and the police consultation twitter responded:

“Possesion, Aquisition, or distribution of Pictures or Video, but also drawings depicting sexual acts from and on children is criminalized. For an example Manga-Imagery with such depictions.”

It’s dangerous, because this shows that they might investigate even for simple possesion since even the police consultation is wrong?

If anyone feels the need to correct them, or ask further questions please do. I don’t have a Twitter.

It devalues the term CSAM and the horrible nature of this crime so much that it’s just sad. How can a comic have more rights than a human being. One such criminal entry and your life is ruined.

@Sirius
This might interest you since you mentioned something similiar before. Perhaps one could link them the BKA definitions idk.

It’s hard to take such a campaign serious when they post stuff like “Every CSAM is a documented abuse of a real child”, but then also include Mangas in it.

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Thanks for the link. This is indeed worrying. If a judge also believes that possession of fictional CP is illegal and signs a search warrants, the police could storm your house with zero indication of anything illegal taking place.

It’s an impossible situation for people with a sexual interest in children. Many ways to deal with that in a way that don’t cause harm (like Child Sex Dolls) have become illegal. And even the options that are legal could still cause you trouble. The result is that it literally does not matter whether you harm anyone or not, whether you follow the law or not - you will still be persecuted, and your life will be ruined if anyone finds out.

It’s a great way to create more criminals. If people feel that it does not matter what they do, that they will never be accepted, have no future and will always be persecuted it becomes much more likely that those people will commit crimes.

It’s a pattern I have noticed recently as well: cite the worst possible cases imaginable, and use the disgust and horror involved to justify criminalization, strict persecution and hard punishments for cases generally falling in a similar category, but involving little or no harm.

And it works, too :frowning:

The abuse networks uncovered in Münster, Lügde and Bergisch-Gladbach which involve some of the worst CSA cases immaginable have successfully been used to raise punishments for the least severe CSA(M) cases, as well as the criminalization of child sex dolls.

Not the first time that the German police have been wrong. LOL. As for the Tweet itself, did you read the response to it?
Das ist so weit von der Wahreit entfernt, dass es nicht einmal mehr lustig ist…

§ 184b des StGB sagt, dass eine PERSON unter 14 Jahren dargestellt werden soll.

Und soweit ich weiß, sind Zeichnungen und digitale Illustrationen, KEINE Personen.

Kein Opfer = Keine Straftat.

A brief translation states that the law specifically says the depiction has to be of a real, existing person below 14
so drawings would only count if they were directly traced from real CP

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That is not completely correct, either. The law distinguishes between images that are indistinguishable from reality (“wirklichkeitsnah”), and obviously fictional images like drawings. The possession of fictional CP is completely legal as long as it is not indistinguishable from reality, however distribution, trade and production is still persecuted as child pornography.

So basically drawings can be child pornography, it’s just that it is not criminalized as long as we are only talking about possession.

The original tweet is still wrong though because they claim that even possession of mangas is illegal, which are generally clearly recognizable as fiction.

Are those the police, though? No blue checkmark, and their self-given name Zivile Helden means Civil Heroes. That’s arrogant af if so.

Frankly, Civil Heroes is the most ridiculous-sounding allegedly “official” German police name since Protection Squad.

I find the lack of blue checkmark by the nominally “official” account disturbing.

They get retweeted by the Federal Criminal Police Office and other police accounts with a checkmark tho. They don’t have one, because of their small following, or they don’t care.

https://mobile.twitter.com/bka

By the way, do you happen to have a Discord account? I ask because I know someone else from Germany who appears to be able to enjoy lolicon, regardless of the laws.

I do yeah and what exactly do you mean by enjoying? Possession is legal, so everyone should be able to do so.

Wait, so then what were you complaining about? Also, the validity of those self-proclaimed “Civil Heroes” is also called into question. They are not lawyers, and I’m pretty sure that they are not directly police either. Just a promotion group for the police.

They also tried to jail people for faking vaccine certificates which is not illegal, so them thinking it’s illegal is enough to ruin lives.

So, as I said, not quite police, and certainly not lawyers. On that Tweet, that Kappa fellow is 100% correct. Whenever someone says bullshit, call them out on it. In this case, these “Civil Heroes” are not even tigers. They are mice, making themselves appear big by walking in front of tigers (as the classic fable goes). See. The operative word is “tried to jail”. Is there a greater feeling than sneering at the losers’ faces of those who tried to destroy you and failed?

Again, in terms of explicitly written laws, what are you afraid of? And also, again, do you need to talk to a fellow German? If so, I’m still waiting for those Discord details.

Wait, so then, what was this about? https://forum.prostasia.org/t/china-seems-more-reasonable-as-time-goes-by Also, you agree that the “Civil Heroes” were spouting bullshit, right? Then I see no problem.

If you’re talking about mainland China, I too was born there and used to occasionally travel back there to visit extended family. Given everything, there is no realistic scenario that I would ever consider going back there in the immediate future. I mean, if you think stuff is censored in Germany, oh, boy… Well, I suppose China is a lot like Germany… During the 1930s and early 1940s sans the admittedly good fashion sense.

It’s not mainland China. What we have in common is our dislike towards the country we were born in. It of course appears acceptable in your case, but I hope that you can respect my disliking. I am definetly not the only one to dislike Germany and the numbers of emmigrants is growing, mostly young and educated people who are fed up.

Since it’s easier to settle with a study abroad, that is what I am going to do. Foreign qualifications are not really that valuable I imagine esp. when the B.Sc here is only three years compared to the four years abroad. Also, working in IT turned out to be boring, so I am excited about studying what I like this time.

They actually updated their website and rephrased the Manga part lmao. Now it sounds like that there is more of a focus on realism and not a straight out ban.

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They might very well be.