Nothing's changing anytime soon

American psychologist Jonathan Haidt in his book “The Righteous Mind”, posited that the overwhelming majority of moral reasoning is done post hoc. And this is why he thinks argumentation and evidence is so often terrible at changing peoples beliefs.

The argument is the outward expression of an unreasoned intuition, akin to how a dog wags its tail when its happy - and just like how you cant make it happy by simply wagging its tail for it, you cant change peoples beliefs by simply refuting their arguments.

The arguments that need to be said have already been said.

Take marijuana for example. The arguments being trotted out all around CNN, MSNBC, Fox and friends etc, are the exact same ones that pro-legalization folks have been making for decades. But why is it they’re landing now when they haven’t for the past 50 years . Did logic evolve? Did the actual facts of the matter change? Fuck no

The simple fact is more people are smoking weed now then ever. Its easy to disregard all reason when the people getting the short end of the stick are people you didn’t like anyways. But what if its now your friends? Your kids? You?

Now that the general population has a stake in the matter, everything’s turned on its head now. “Wrong” becomes right, “abhorrent” becomes acceptable, and “deviant” becomes normal. The arguments are the same of they’ve always been, the facts are the same as they’ve always been, but people have motivation to think differently now, and so they are.

Power shapes culture, and power shapes perception. Maps aren’t viewed as actually dangerous or insidious. They’re viewed as powerless pariahs who can be stigmatized, ostracized, and slandered without consequence . In their hatred for us, they find unity and fellowship amongst themselves - Putting their differences aside to collectively finger wag at a people lower than all of them.

There are an order of magnitude more MAPS than society will recognize. some of those MAPS are here, putting up a front for the public eye, because they know what would happen if they were honest to those around them. But the majority of them aren’t being honest even to themselves. They’ll call other people pedophiles, label them degenerates - when they in truth feel the exact same way. They’ll say its different… Why is that? because they’re the ones doing it of course. Their reasoning is motivated, just like how society at large’s reasoning is motivated.

Society’s views on us will not change until the fallout of their belief’s comes knocking at their own front door : until its their sons, their daughters, their parents, their partners, themselves, who are the ones on the receiving end. But that will never happen until those people are honest about who and what they are.

Will that ever happen? I don’t know.


Yes, I kinda agree with you. That thing you said about MAPs being seen like powerless pariahs, is the same thing I’m always talking about when I said is a moral problem. For society, pedos are “not people”. Like, they are not part of their group, so anything done to them is OK. After all, is Ok to do bad stuff to “things”.

The exact same thing happened in the past with black people in the days of slavery, and with jews in nazi Germany. So again, In the minds of these people in their correspondent times, the examples I mentioned were not “people”, they were simply “things”, that’s why no one feels bad for doing bad stuff to them. And unfortunately, pedophiles are an example of that in our time.

Anyway, I always have a bad time trying to explain this kind of thing to others. I guess I’m probably not a good teacher. Also, I’m aware that at first this kind of thing seems to be irrelevant, and maybe seems “too obvious” and it’s ignored because of it. But the truth is far from that. Those are very complex things that people don’t give the credit it deserves. Well, they should, because it influences our lives in pretty much all ways I can think about.
So, I’ll try to explain it again, to see if this time I can convince someone about it. Anyway, let’s see how it goes. So, what I’m calling moral here?

Well, I guess the best way I can describe it, is that Moral is the feeling we have, about the opinion of people around us which is related to the way they THINK would be correct for us to behave. So, If we act in a way that will agree with that opinion, and therefore please those people around us, we receive from our brain a positive and nice feeling. Which is that good feeling we have when we help people, donate to the poor, obey rules, etc. Is the feeling that we usually describe as “we did the right thing”. And the opposite is also true. If you act contrary to the opinion of the people around you, in the sense of displeasing them, you will feel a bad feeling. That’s is what we use to call “feeling guilty”. All those things are instincts we still have from long ago when for us, being alone would mean certain death. Those feelings are tools we have, so we remain close to a group because we need (needed) that to survive. Is the exact same mechanism explained here (more precisely between 1:28 to 3:29, but you may watch the entire thing, is a very interesting video anyway):

But in this case is done about the feeling of loneliness, which is 100% related to this moral stuff I’m trying to explain. Anyway, this video does a great job explaining how exactly moral works. Even not talking about it directly. Pay attention when they use the word “social pain”. What they are calling social pain is nothing less than morality itself. So, if a person acts in an immoral way, she gets physical pain in response, that’s why we don’t do it. That’s why they don’t do it, is why they won’t agree with any “pedo argument”.

So… my point is, yes, arguments are not enough to convince them. When we talk about things related to pedophilia, people are pretty much just following a basic instinct. :expressionless: Arguments won’t work with the vast majority of them because the problem is not logical, the problem is a moral value that needs to be extinct.

Another thing you guys need to understand is that Pedophiles themselves are the immoral thing here. So, people won’t agree with arguments in favor of pedophiles, because for them, agreeing with anything related to pedophilia is immoral So there is no other way to deal with this problem other than fighting the morals about it. And that’s why I keep saying here, to fight this, the moral against pedophiles itself should be your focus. But I confess that how exactly one can fight against a moral value is not clear to me. :thinking: But I guess that finding who is your real enemy is a good start. Also, I know this is perfectly possible since the lgbt group accomplished that not soo long ago.