Reconciliation of Prison abolitionism and child s*xual abuse dolls

Criminal justice
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So the FB group I’m in has mix feelings with my proposal. Most want really punitive punishments for those caught with these sickening dolls. But I prefer to avoid prison when possible. I consider myself to be a minarchist libertarian and overall am center-right politically.

I want to do some changes to the Creeper Act. I fully commend the criminalization of the possession of child sex dolls. However, I am unhappy with it being a imprisonable offense. I prefer to use criminal fines. Furthermore, I want to keep child sex doll offenders off any criminal registry given the ineffectiveness of them and the fact they are little more than public shaming excursions.

I deeply desire for the following criminal sentence for those caught possessing this heinous material:
Mandatory minimum fine shall be $4,500 + 10% of annual income of the defendant for anyone caught in possession of each child s*xual abuse doll. The maximum possible penalty shall be $4,500 + 200% of annual income so people caught with over 20 child sex dolls won’t be overly punished. For reoffenders and subsequent offenses, the penalty shall be doubled.

So I fancy myself a prison abolitionist which basically means I believe in prison only when absolutely necessary and prefer to opt for restorative justice, criminal fines, or probation for the vast majority of offenses including many crimes of violence. I recall reading about what a former warden thought and he felt 90% of the people in his prison did not need to be there. There was also studies done which showed criminals who have their prison sentence suspended are more likely to be able to keep their jobs and pay restitution to victims or victim funds. Furthermore, a look into European justice shows that criminal fines and probation are actually pretty great alternatives to incarceration and is more affordable.

The prison abolitionist mindset goes as follows: Prison is for those who we are rationally afraid of, not for people we are rationally mad at. Leave prisons for people like child rapists like Larry Nassar, murderers like Ted Bundy, terrorists like the michigan Gov. attempted kidnappers, and crimes of extreme and profound violence. Don’t throw people in prison just because you are mad at them.

I am very angry at these sick pedos who want these dolls. But I am not afraid of them. I want them severely punished, but not with prison, not with probation or any restrictions on their liberty, but with really severe fines. I feel that $4,500 + 10% of their income PER DOLL possessed reflects the egregious nature of this contraband crime. Being a prison abolitionist is not about being against severe punishment, it’s wanting prison to be used only when absolutely necessary/last resort. You can be a prison abolitionist and want severe financial punishments to these sick POS.

I find “child s*x dolls” or as they should be called, child sexual abuse dolls to be an extremely heinous invention and everyone possessing them are culpable for this heinous tool. This tool only serves to normalize the sick perversions of pedophiles. It is indefensible to be in possession of these heinous horrible tools. I cannot understand why anyone would condone them.

The distribution and possession of such heinous dolls undoubtfully normalize pedophilia. These dolls not only put children at risk, but they also devalue the childhood of everyone. By having sx with these dolls, you make it clear to the world you think a CHILD LIKE BODY is for sx and this is unconscionable and undoubtfully represent a very serious crime worthy of harsh financial criminal fines.

When you have sex with a child sx abuse doll, you harm me, because you devalue MY childhood.
When you have sex with a child sx abuse doll, you harm society, because you devalue EVERYONE’s childhood.
When you have sex with a child sx abuse doll, you harm society, because you NORMALIZE pedophilia.
When you have sex with a child sx abuse doll, you harm children, because the normalization of child sex dolls LEADS UNDOUBTFULLY to the normalization of child rape, child molestation and abuse of all kinds.

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Normalization isn’t real. Here is my explanation pasted from another post:
There is no evidence that this will have any effect on culture as a whole, considering the subject matter is already controversial and uncomfortable for many. All the Prostasia foundation is trying to do is prevent what is essentially a heinous and cruel act of paternalistic prohibition and censorship from being imposed on law-abiding citizens who have committed no crimes against children.

The sexualization of children isn’t an issue. Countries such as the United States, Japan and Denmark legalize the sale, possession, and distribution of “virtual” child pornography, sexually explicit material that “appears to depict” a minor but does, in fact, not. Japan and Denmark have some of the lowest statistics in regards to sexual crimes against minors (or sex crimes in general) which is positively outstanding, considering Japan’s high population and economic presence on the world stage. Studies have been conducted on this phenomena, and the majority consensus of the scientific community seems to be that the availability of pornography in a region may in fact have a direct correlation with sex crimes, in that they reduce their likelihood. Sex dolls are no different in this respect.

If your argument for why child sex dolls should be criminalized hinders upon alleged cultural or social implications, then your argument is very weak and unsubstantiated. The law makes it very clear that anythig involving actual children is criminal, and justifiably so. The aim of the Prostasia Foundation isn’t to legalize child sex abuse, rather, it’s to prevent it while also offering reasonable, evidence-based approaches that don’t involve prohibition or criminalization of imagery, thoughts, or ideas often associated with the act of child sex abuse.

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As an actual prison abolitionist, see my book, Prison As Power: Being & State Contra Negativity & Notion, I find your arguments for criminalizing the manufacturing, possession or sale of dolls to be illogical and, given your ostensible commitment to civil liberties, farcical.

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… Chie to the rescue.

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@Chie Someone on our FB group claimed you were harrassing them on this forum. WTF is your problem?

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Your FB group is the problem. Chie is simply using reason and logic to verbally slay you monsters.

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Wait… you come into our forum and start accusing people left and right of promoting child abuse, then have the audacity to turn around and say that you are being harassed here? Feel free to leave the forum, problem solved.

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First of all, I don’t harass people. I prefer to debate people on public forums in a professional manner. Harassing others who disagree with you is shameful.

I don’t even have a Facebook account, nor would I have access to your QAnon group, which would likely be reported since pro-QAnon discussion is against their rules.

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Apparently, the missionaries are getting triggered that the “savages” are reacting poorly to their attempts at conversion.

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Here’s the thing dude. I don’t know it if you know this, but there has been some posts in some of our facebook group fantasizing about carrying out bombing attacks against sex doll manufacturers if they start producing child sex dolls. I’m not kidding. I think they were just kidding around but they go in these really long posts and high detailed fantasies about how they would carry out such attacks.

No one knows if these people are serious or just joking around except the people who write them. It’s very often people write very extreme things in our group so it’s hard to tell. So even if you are right that these child sex dolls don’t actually increase crime, is it worth getting potentially several hundred manufacturers KILLED because someone decides to carry out a series of attacks?

There is a huge amount of evidence these child sex dolls will significantly increase child rape. It NORMALIZES it, desensitizes us to it. Personally, while I won’t go as far as advocate for people going out and attacking, I won’t be angry anyone who decides to carry out these attacks. They had an understandable anger and frustration and these greedy manufacturers refuse to listen and kept producing child sex dolls.

Child sex dolls are evil. Don’t produce it. It’s not worth causing potentially hundreds of people to be killed. It’s not worth normalizing it. Lock up anyone caught with these dolls for life.

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That’s terrorist activity. You have an obligation to report them. This is turning very serious and I think you and your QAnon group are the real evil, not us.

No, there isn’t. That’s the thing we’ve been trying to tell you.
Also, normalization isn’t a valid concept, as I’ve explained dozens of times in previous posts. We have easily accessible sexually violent media, such as pornography and in areas where such media is accessible, therein also exists a significantly lower amount of sex crimes. This is a phenomenon that has been observed throughout the years, and only becomes more prominent by the day.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=179581

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This is serious, joycelin. You can be as disgusted as you like by these dolls, but you are describing, and seemingly justifying, terrorism. I will be direct messaging you so that we can have this threat dealt with at an appropriate level.

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This is actually getting serious.

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:face_with_monocle: apologist for terrorism against doll manufacturers? Full on Pizza-gate right out of the gate!

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No one here is being an “apologist” for terrorism. So try again. If a doll company starts making child sex dolls and a group decides to sabotage their machinery with explosives as a way to threaten the company, I’m not going to complain. But I’m not going to get involved either because I don’t want to be considered a terrorist by the feds. If doll companies are that terrified of saboteurs blowing up their machines, the solution is simple: Don’t make child sex dolls. If they go and decide to make these disgusting “toys”, and they get attacked, I’m not going to blame the “terrorists”, (I prefer to call them concerned vigilantes), I’m going to blame the company for refusing to listen to the 85% of AMERICANS that want to criminalize child sex dolls.

Sadly, those threads fantasizing about carrying out sabotage/violence have been removed hours ago because they violate facebook’s policy as it can be too easily misread to be incitement/threats as oppose to what was more likely to be a rant post. We would have loved to allow people to express their anger including with rants however they’d like as long as they don’t threaten specific people/organizations. But facebook policies are broader than what we think they should be. So either mods remove those threads or the the group gets shut down. Those threads were very likely reported multiple times each, so if Facebook catches mods allowing those threads to stay up, group could be easily shut down.

If you are paranoid… No identified company or nonprofit, Prostasia nor any specific organization was threatened, let alone mentioned in those rants. Posters of those rant posts don’t even know prostasia exists, but were fully aware of child sex dolls exist.

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So now you are literally terrorists? Because that’s how terrorism works. They are not “concerned vigilantes”, they are terrorists. You are refusing to condemn terrorist threats.

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That’s exactly what you’re being:

“I don’t mind terrorism as long as I agree with the terrorists”

You’ve now fallen so far that you’re not even trying to convince us that sex dolls are bad any more, you’re just threatening violence a k.a. being terrorists. I really don’t think you appreciate the seriousness of this.

You said yourself that you’re okay with people acting out violent fantasies on real people, but acting out sexual fantasies in private on a piece of plastic is somehow significantly more harmful?

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Vigilantes are still criminals. They are the ones who deserve to be strung up. Yes, FB should do its job, root you out, and shut you guys down.

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“I genuinely couldn’t care less about terrorism as long as I agree with its goals”

You couldn’t care less about harm to real people, but are obsessed with what people do alone in the privacy of their own home with a piece of plastic. You need to get your priorities straight.

The people committing terrorist attacks. The fact that you would consider any other answer is deeply concerning.

What is popular is not always right, mob mentality is a dangerous thing. 85% of Americans seem to hear the words “child” and “sex” in the same sentence and lose all ability for rational thought.

Your response is solely emotional. You are not seeking to protect children or show that these dolls are harmful, you are trying to get rid of something that you find icky.

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A good majority (or at least I’d say) of Americans seem to lose rational thought when it comes to sex as a whole.

The amount of times I read or hear about American parents going “I don’t understand how European parents can let their kids (in this case, 16/17 y/o’s) have sex with their boyfriend/girlfriend in their own house!”

It’s probably due to the fact that the European parents would rather their kids have sex in a safe environment rather than a place where they can’t hear them screaming “NO!”

That’s a sideline, though.

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