Rethinking the Detection of Child Sexual Abuse Imagery on the Internet

Not in the article, but is it possible to mandate all ISPs filter via PhotoDNA to keep it from being accessible?

Proposals involve use deep learning AI to help detect victims and perpetrators in videos.

We argued that researchers need to develop algorithms that automatically detect CSAI content, cluster images and videos of victims, and ultimately surface identifying features to help law enforcement.
The cost of human review also requires both technical and nontechnical solutions that reduce the emotional toll of examining CSAI content. Absent new protections, society will be unable to
adequately protect victims of child sexual abuse.

It’s possible but it’s not really necessary since platforms are happy to do it and all the larger ones already have. The biggest barrier has been the complexity of setting it up, but CloudFlare have made it a lot simpler for small platform to turn on scanning just with the flick of a switch.


It’s possible but it’s not really necessary since platforms are happy to do it and all the larger ones already have. The biggest barrier has been the complexity of setting it up, but CloudFlare have made it a lot simpler for small platform to turn on scanning just with the flick of a switch.

Still, aren’t there even smaller blogs/sites which criminals may host such heinous content? This is why I’d like ISPs to still use these filterings. I also do wonder, what impact would filtering have on those using VPNs? Would they still work and keeping the user from seeing these illicit images?

Historically some of the rogue web hosts where this material stays up for the longest time are small countries with weak law enforcement. This is where content will gravitate to if filtering is mandated under the EARN IT Act (which only covers US websites). This is a problem and it’s why some people are saying we have to move filtering into the browser (though that too comes with problems, that are currently insurmountable to my mind).

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Good point about earn it act. If the material is not getting removed due to geographical issues, this is why I want isps to block it.

I think long term, we need to start thinking about ways to make future computers immune from known unlawful images of minors. Make it impossible for consumer grade consumers to store or view child abuse image. Engineer computers, SD cards and external hardrives so that if someone where to attempt to transfer known a abuse image onto electronic storage, the electronic storage would simply deny transfer. That way, the illegal possessors’ images will simply die because storage devices have limited lifespan. When the images no longer exist, re-victimization is over and victims can heal once more.

I simply do not see any other way to eliminate this. If ray kurtzweil is right about super-ai and artificial general intelligence, it could also be used to block out any new depictions from view, whether livestream, etc that are deemed illegal before anyone can even view it. Using AI of today could be a bad idea for this because it simply isn’t that good yet. But if ray is right, maybe in 2030? we will have AI as good as determining illegal from legal depictions and auto censor new and old depictions in real time to prevent and deter viewing.

We should aim to make viewing a child abuse image so difficult that it would actually be easier to get it offline than online. That way it will be truelly eliminated and people who are Dispositioned to being tempted to access that stuff go therapy. child sex abuse images can be thought of as a type of disease what causes harm to victims filmed/photographed in the abuse and this disease must be eradicated like Smallpox and Polio. I think some of the users on your page and hany on his idea of browser photodna have a point. We need technology in this. We can eradicate diseases as we have done with smallpox and polio.

From George Orwell’s 1984:

Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it.

If you make digital technologies that can’t be used to hold a particular type of image, they can just as easily be used to suppress any unwanted speech or thought.

You can’t see any other way to eliminate this because you are thinking about technology as the solution. Technology doesn’t ever hold the solution to social problems! We can only reduce the amount of abuse imagery that is shared by appealing to the better natures of those who share it.

Yes, that’s just what the world needs, more children being molested. * facepalm *

Yes, that’s just what the world needs, more children being molested. * facepalm *

Learn what that sentence means. It’s always difficult to access CP offline, the goal is to make accessing CP online EXTREMELY DIFFICULT, - even compared to the difficulty associated with offline access. In the early 90s, the issue of CP was quite close to being utterly crushed due to the difficulty of accessing it. Than the internet came along and fucked everything up. If we can somehow make it impossible to distribute CP online, this child abuse image industry will finally be crushed.

I actually know what you meant by the sentence, but that’s not how it comes off sounding… more realistically, that’s what would happen.

I actually know what you meant by the sentence, but that’s not how it comes off sounding… more realistically, that’s what would happen.

We do not need CSAM victims to be the sacrificial lamb in the war on child sexual abuse. This very much reminds me of old movies in which one person is condemned to be eaten alive by a monster to spare the town. Cruel and inhumane… We can get the best of both worlds.

  1. If it’s true that CSAM was basically an “outlet” for a percentage of CSAM possession and trading offenders, than legalize Pornographic Depictions of Fictional Minors (PDFM) so they can entertain their sick feelings without re-victimizing/harming anyone.

  2. Increase funding for prevention programs for at risk people before they molest a child.

  3. Reduce barriers that keep at risk people, including MAPs from seeking help. Many of these things are probably stigma related in professional spaces and lack of trust between therapists and MAPs.

  4. More anonymous helplines for CSAM possession offenders like StopitNow. We are seeing an explosion of people seeking help using that hotline. It needs to be encouraged more.

I don’t think that making internet CSAM extremely difficult will lead to more child molestation even if it’s true a portion of CSAM offenders were using it as an alternate outlet (which is debatable). It is also not a justified outlet due to revictimization issue. If it does, there are solutions that could also be implemented concurrently.

We need to do more to eradicate these their collection of terrors. No one has the right to possess an video or a photo of a REAL child being sexually abused.

I am very hopeful that in seasteading, I may finally be able to implement the CSAM policies the way they should be implemented. If it’s basically the image version of “Newspeak” so be it. No one has the right to revictimize someone else. I intend to join a seastead that has legislation requiring all who bring any electronic storage device into the seastead to be forced to install software which will essentially render their electronics immune to depictions of child sexual abuse. In seasteading, we get to choose countries which fit our values. Utter Annihilation of even the ability to store CSAM images fits well within the values I hold.

Someone flagged this post presumably because it said “sick fucks.” I am leaving it up because the post also has some thoughtful ideas, but it’s a good idea for a lot of reasons to avoid dehumanizing language.

OK I’ve edited the post. My goal isn’t to dehumanize CSAM possessors, I guess someone perceived that I was.

I flagged your post because you called pedophilic feelings sick. I understand people find them gut-wrenching and you’re free to call them that. But please don’t call them sick. It’s stigmatizing.


I flagged your post because you called pedophilic feelings sick. I understand people find them gut-wrenching and you’re free to call them that. But please don’t call them sick. It’s stigmatizing.

We are not here to ignore reality. The sexual attraction to a prepubescent minor is a sickness. While you shouldn’t be stigmatized over something you have no control over, it is a sickness of sort. Who you are fundamentally is what you do to others, both good and bad and in between, not what mental disorders you are born with. As long as you are not out there harming people, almost no one cares that you are a MAP. And I mean like 98% of the general population literally couldn’t care less…

Pedophilia is termed pedophilic disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), and the manual defines it as a paraphilia involving intense and recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasies about prepubescent children that have either been acted upon or which cause the person with the attraction distress or interpersonal difficulty.[4] The International Classification of Diseases (ICD-11) defines it as a "sustained, focused, and intense pattern of sexual arousal—as manifested by persistent sexual thoughts, fantasies, urges, or behaviours—involving pre-pubertal children.

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In order to edit articles on Wikipedia one must reveal their IP adress. You can’t use a VPN. Contributors who want to protect their identities are effectively discouraged from editing articles like the one you cited. It has errors and lacks information as a result.

The following is taken directly from the DSM-5 of 2013.

Diagnostic Features

[…]If individuals also complain that their sex­ual attractions or preferences for children are causing psychosocial difficulties, they may be di­agnosed with pedophilic disorder. However, if they report an absence of feelings of guilt, shame, or anxiety about these impulses and are not functionally limited by their paraphilic im­pulses (according to self-report, objective assessment, or both), and their self-reported and le­gally recorded histories indicate that they have never acted on their impulses, then these individuals have a pedophilic sexual orientation but not pedophilic disorder.

Politics later influenced APA to change the definition of pedophilia. Pedophilia is no longer recognized as a sexual orientation in DSM-5 although it qualifies in regard to the early age of onset and stability over time. (Seto, M.C. Is Pedophilia a Sexual Orientation?. Arch Sex Behav 41, 231–236 (2012). Pedophilia is not recognized as a mental illness in DSM-5. A pedophile may however suffer from pedophilic disorder (PD) if 1) they are highly distressed by their condition or 2) they sexually offend against children.

I spend a lot of time in the pedophile community. Our shared experience tells me the opposite. Pedophilia appears highly stigmatized from our perspective.


Well I, as a MAP would like to point out the difference between having pedophilic thoughts and being diagnosed with pedophilic disorder. For example for a diagnosis of pedophilic disorder you need to have actually acted out on these fantasies. Many pedophiles do not have pedophilic disorder, and many child molesters aren’t pedophiles. Sexual abuse is less about the sex and more about the power. The reason why it is so effective at ruining people’s lives is because of the extreme social stigma around sex in general, not to mention feelings of if I had been bigger or stronger I could have stopped this. Sexual abuse, like all abuse is, about power being put in the hands of an abuser who feels the need to feel powerful. Whether that be because they actively want to ruin a person’s life or they just want to invalidate their own feelings of powerlessness varies from abuser to abuser, but the end result is the same. The reason why sex with minors is illegal in most places is because it is common belief that children are easier to manipulate and take advantage of, and thus, with the ease of potential abuse there will be more people abusing them.

I would like it if someday there were a world where children were tought about sex and it’s risks from a young age; what it is and isn’t, what to look out for, etc. so that less power is in the hands of the abusers (after all, for most victims, sex is this new and mysterious thing). The next logical step in this would be to have these lessons be taught in school, not the household (in order to prevent that power dynamic, and these lessons would be taught in ways that were supervised and public. Parents would likely ask what their children learned and ask for specific details and if something they felt uncomfortable with had happened there should be a clear chain of authority and method of reporting for. What I would ultimately like to happen would require massive societal shift.

I want a world where all people are seen as fully independent people, regardless of their age. People should not be forced to remain in one place or household, and could go where they wished. If they disagreed with the laws of their current locale they could move to a place with laws more akin to their beliefs. Certain things would be basic (standards of decency and a belief in peer accountability), but the only things that would be illegal worldwide are actively harming someone else (however exceptions could be made in cases of self defense or protection of an innocent, however the harming of an individual should always be investigated and handled seriously and appropriately even in such cases as self defense). Granted, the only problem with this system is that it assumes that most people are, at the core, basically good. In this system, some people would still likely commit crimes and harm others, however, instead of a purely reactionary approach to justice, it would emphasize a lot more preventative techniques, and instead of actively harming or stigmatizing criminals their peers would do everything necessary to protect others and hold the criminal accountable while still alowing them the same rights and respects as any other person. As a reformed criminal myself, I am a firm believer in the fact that institutionalization does not always protect people nor is negative reinforcement always the best way to approach a situation. Criminals are just people who have made mistakes, but they are still people, and like all people, should be treated with respect. And in my opinion, part of respect for someone is holding them accountable for their actions and calling them on their bullshit


Try emphasizing the difference between being born a certain way Vs child molestation? I think pedo thoughts are extremely hideous and disgusting but I don’t see that as a valid reason to hate them or treat them differently than from any other stranger. If an adult rapes a child than yes absolutely they relinquish their human rights, regardless on whether they are attracted to minors or not.

We do emphasize that, people just ignore it. No matter what we say or do, as long as society stigmatizes us (and hell, probably after too, just to a lesser extent) People will continue to say that all pedophiles are kid diddlers and/or rapists

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