South Dakota bill would ban child sex dolls

Criminal justice
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South Dakota, a state that repealed most of its obscenity laws and definitions some time ago, is about to run afoul of its great progress with this un-American, unconstitutional bill aimed at turning innocent, law-abiding citizens into sex offenders, on nothing more than superficial assumptions backed by fallacious logic infused with prejudice and fear.

State legislators are considering criminalizing the selling, making or owning of a sex doll that looks like a child in South Dakota.

A bill introduced to the Senate Judiciary Committee Thursday morning would make having or making childlike sex dolls a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

Proponents of Senate Bill 126 say the childlike sex dolls are a “gateway” into abusing real children.

The bill’s proponent, Sen. Jessica Castleberry, R-Rapid City, said the dolls create a market and demand for child pornography. The dolls, which have physical features and personalities that are lifelike, make rape easier, she said.

“It normalizes and desensitizes the abusive behavior,” she said.

Carrie Sanderson, director for the Center for Prevention of Child Maltreatment, said the sex dolls that look like children allow for inappropriate behaviors to fester.

“The dolls are a gateway,” she said. “They have potential of eroding the shame that would typically come with having sex with a child.”

Concerned Women for America of South Dakota, the Governor’s office, the South Dakota Catholic Conference and the South Dakota State’s Attorneys Association spoke in support of the bill.

Legislators decided to defer the bill to another hearing to give proponents time to consider amendments after concerns about the bill’s vague and broad language were brought forward from one opponent and a few senators.

Justin Bell, lobbyist for the South Dakota Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said violence against children is unacceptable and an “absolute heinous crime” but said the bill’s language was too broad and doesn’t have a victim like child porn statutes do. He said other statutes would likely cover the behavior or materials wanting to be addressed in this bill.

Here is a blog post that addresses the many issues with the bill in reference to the CREEPER Act, a bill from yesteryear with many similarities to the current legislation in question.

My heart goes out to the innocent people likely to be affected by this civil rights violation, should the bill be passed. There is very little, if any, empirical research on the effects of child sex dolls on pedophiles or consumers, and the relevant research on adult pornography, in addition to fictional/virtual child pornography, as well as CP/CSAM consumption shows no causal relationship with the commission of sex crimes, with the relevant studies, although conflicted, mostly showing pornography consumption is NOT a causal variable when evaluating one’s predisposition to commit sex crimes.
More research is needed to validate these findings.

These laws are civil rights violations under the guise of child protection. Absolutely nothing about these laws will help prevent sexual abuse.
I feel nauseated when I read about this. This is NOT the American way. Censorship and prohibition are NOT the way to tackle issues like this.

I pray that reason and rationality will shine through and this bill dies before it can be considered, or is discarded for its blatant cruelty to an already stigmatized, almost vulnerable, group of people - non-offending pedophiles and MAPS.

I hope @prostasia is willing and able to mount a defense against this.

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What is “childlike”? Who will decide what is “childlike”?

If having sex with childlike sex doll, leads to abuse of real children, does it mean that having sex with 18 years old person who looks like 16-17 years old, leads to abuse of children, too?

"The bill’s proponent, Sen. Jessica Castleberry, R-Rapid City, said the dolls create a market and demand for child pornography. The dolls, which have physical features and personalities that are lifelike, make rape easier, she said.

“It normalizes and desensitizes the abusive behavior,” she said."

What is abuse? Do they mean consensual sex between adult people and young people? What about the countless number of studies that prove that consensual sex between adult people and young people is not abuse? What about the studies that prove that the majority of images/videos that are considered CSEM, are not abuse nor exploitation, and therefore are not CSEM?

Do they have any study to prove the claim that child dolls lead to abuse of real children? How will they explain the fact that child abuse, and all kinds of violence, are decreasing worldwide, NOT INCREASING?

Child dolls are not alive they don’t have consciousness/personality, they are not real humans, so they can’t have age. It’s impossible for drawing and doll to have age, because there is nothing to have age - there is no personality.

This kind of sex fascism is only a temporal phenomena that will disappear in around 10-15 years, or even earlier.

By the way, who is behind the bill? These bills don’t happen for no reason - one day someone wakes up with the idea to make such bill. Was there any campaign to influence these “senators” to make the bill? Are the “senators” conservative? Wat made them to make the bill?

Everything i know is that during 2020, there was NGO that was ruled by ignorant primitives, who decided to spread fake news against Etsy and Amazon, accusing them for selling products that cause child abuse, which is not true.

The Sex Offender Registry is the last source of energy for such bills. Once the registry is gone, the whole “Stranger Danger” propaganda will end, including the stereotypical propaganda about the hairy, fat, ugly, creepy-looking old male, who lurks around schoold and gives sugar candies to children, so children can follow him. This male doesn’t even exist… He is nothing more that stereotype, or a myth.

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To be fair, sexual activity between adults and children is always abuse, even if it’s “consensual”. This is due to the overwhelming power dynamic between a child and an adult which makes any form of “consent” impossible. Children cannot consent to sex with adults.

As for the CSEM argument, children shouldn’t be able to be sexually exploited or coerced by adults into producing pornographic media. Children’s brains are not at that level of mental or social maturity to where they can understand and be responsible with regard to their sexual privacy, therefore, a blanket ban on CSAM is required to ensure these interests are satisfied.

The problem with this bill is it’s trying to extend the definition of abuse to include items or materials that, by their very definition, cannot entail or involve abuse using spurious, fallacious logic by assuming there’s a causal relationship between owning these dolls and actually abusing a child. Such an assumption is not based in reality and exploits fear and prejudice to override reason.

Abuse requires a victim, and dolls clearly are NOT that.

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The power difference argument is intnded to fool us into thinking that any difference in “power” is a form of manipulation and coercion, which is obviously not true. You do not judge your interest on some calculation of power difference.

Your boss also has “overwhelming power”. Are you abused by the fact you work?

What has maturity to do with age? Isn’t maturity caused by knowledge about certain subject? For example, a 15 years old person who already had sex, got sex-ed, knows about what is sex, is more sexually mature than a 30 years old person who neved nad sex, didn’t get sex-ed, and doesn’t know what sex is, doesn’t know what is puberty, and doesn’t know what happens with the body during sex, after sex…

If the person is 15 years old, for example, and knows everything, absolutely everything about sex, why do you think the person won’t be able to give consent?

The ban you are talking about should be applied only when the “CSEM” is produced by abuse, not by consent. This is important to be known, because, in fact, there are a lot of people who are registered on the sex offender registry, just because they send nude photos to minors, and vice versa. Even minors who sent nude photos to adult people or other minors, got registered on the sex offender registry, which leads to violation of their human rights. Such repressive laws violate the sexual freedom of children, and this is why we need more CSE (Comperhensive Sex Education). When people have enough knowledge, they will be mature enough to be able to make the rights decisions.

Also, ensuring interests doesn’t mean to repress the people who you want to “save”. The law/ban you are talking about, pretends to save people, but actually repress them. For example, the law is designed to protect people under the age of 18. But because of this law, people under the age of 18 are being prosecuted and registered on the SOR, which exposes a lot of private information, and adds stigma, and ruins lives. Is this protection?

I can show you videos of professional psychologists and psychiatrists about why your statement is wrong. If you are ready to watch such truth-revealing videos, feel free to send me private message. Im not going to share them publically, because facts are not welcomed by everyone.

This is what they do in the last a few decades - extending the definition of abuse… Today, even holding the door is considered sexual abuse.

When it comes to these dolls, there is no study to support the claim that these dolls lead to harm. Even if someone decide to make such study, the results will prove that these dolls don’t lad to harm.

This is true. But a lot of people would say that these dolls will lead to abuse and rape. These people will use hashtags like “SaveTheChildren”. If you ask them why pedophilia is bad, why the dolls should not be legalized, how do they know the dolls will lead to abuse, they wont be abl to explain anything, so they will block you. I know this from personal experience.

The bad thing is that politicians are more likely to make laws based on sexual victimology that is based on stereotypes and myths… and never on actual science.

To see any positive changes, we will have to wait 10-15 years, according to my calculations on politics. However, i hope we will see positive changes sooner. I hope the human rights organizations will abolish the sex offender registry soon, as they claim.

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Dude… no.

The power dynamic observation is a very real thing. Children are biologically wired to revere adults as authority figures, taking their word and actions as gospel and subject to their influence on a level not like that of a “boss and an employee”. My boss can be a blowhard and make me do things I don’t want to, but I can choose to quit my job. With children, they don’t always have that option, or if they do, are told (and convinced) they don’t.

This is an example of false equivocation at its finest.

I’ll say it one final time.

CHILDREN CANNOT CONSENT TO SEXUAL ACTIVITIES WITH ADULTS

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You can’t deny the fact that in the past, before the invention of the concept of pedophilia, people way under the age of 18, were allowed to have sex with people above the age of 18, to work, to be economically independent, to take care for other people, to take care for themselves, to visit sex workers, to choose when and with who to have sex - to choose sexual partner, to marry, to have job, to be kings and queens, to rule whole empires, etc… In other words, people under the age of 18 were given the same rights and freedom like people above the age of 18, which means that people under teh age of 18 were treated no different than people above the age of 18. But then, in the late 18th century (or even earlier) the concept of pedophilia was invented, and the social attitudes were shifted.

Also, you forgot to comment my suggestion to show you the videos i mentioned:

If you need studies from biology, sociology, psychology, ask for them, and i will show you.

By the way, pedophilia doesn’t exist, because there are no genes nor brain changes that indicate pedophilia exist.

Also, sex has nothing to do with gender and age. Human-like animals, like apes/bonobos, engage in sexual acts at all ages and with all genders. And. humans are apes, too. This is just one example of non-human animals, but i can give you more, if you want.

You dont have to scream. I can understand you even when you use small words.

The very fact that in the past, before the creation of the pedophilia myth, people way under the age of 18, were allowed to have sex with people above the age of 18, to work, to be economically independent, to take care for other people, to take care for themselves, to visit sex workers, to choose when and with who to have sex - to choose sexual partner, to marry, to have job, to be kings and queens, to rule whole empires, etc…, proves that the biological wire you are talking about is not really there. In other words, people under the age of 18 were given the same rights and freedom like people above the age of 18, meaning that PEOPLE ABOVE THE AGE OF 18 AND PEOPLE UNDER THE AGE OF 18 were treated equally, without the need people under the age of 18 to serve people above the age of 18, proves that there is no actual need for people under the age of 18 to serve people above the age of 18.

So, before 200-300 years, people didn’t have the biological wire, but in less than 200-300 years, we evolved it? Evolution doesn’t work that fast, and evolution doesn’t work on purpose.

Also, evolving such biological wire is evolutionary impossible, because such wire creates dependence, which lowers the chances of survival, while independence increases the chances of survival.

I will make my suggestion once again: Do you actually want to see actual studies, or you prefer to repeat same old arguments over, and over, and over again, without thinking outside the box, following the evidence, and accepting the objective truth?

If you don’t want to know anything, then im not going to show you anything. Just tell me if yuo want or dont want to see any actual studies.

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Well, the concept of a teenager is a fairly new one. Back then, they were just young adults. Adults… Actually, back in the day, what was the cutoff age for child?

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Exactly! Also, back then, people under the age of 18 had equal rights and freedoms like the people above the age of 18, and they were treated the same way.

They were allowed to be kings and queens, and they were allowed to rule whole empires. Today, children are not allowed to go outside alone.

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There was still a cutoff age, though, as I mentioned. Now, if someone could actually answer that question…

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Can we for once try to keep on topic instead of making every single thread about adult/child sex, you have an unhealthy obsession with defending it at every opportunity.

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Im not guilty. I gave answer to this topic, but the creator of the topic ignored half of what i said, and then he commented small part of what i said, and he directed the discussion into another topic.

Some people have an unhealthy obsession with attacking it at every opportunity. I just show facts that people should know, before making any judgements.

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I’m not attacking or defending anything. I’m literally just asking for morally neutral, historically statistic numbers.

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I’m not going to argue with you on this. This is not up for debate or argument. It is a FACT that children cannot consent, as reasonably defined and understood by all persons, to sexual activity with adults. The only reason why things were different back then is because norms were different and society didn’t know any better.
They were primitive technologically and socially. It wasn’t uncommon for fathers to sell off their 13-year-old daughters into marriage with wealthy 40-somethings, which was very stressful for both the girl and the parents, with a myriad of suffering and abuse entailed that nobody ever talked about due to social taboos about sensitive matters.
This is a fact. This is documented.

Also, you’re wrong. Under-18s and anyone else younger were still regarded as minors in matters where adults (over 18s - 21s) had authority or say over. It was called social subordination.

I’m not going to argue with you on this.

CHILDREN CANNOT CONSENT TO SEX WITH ADULTS!

If you continue parroting this false, inflammatory narrative, then the PF will have no choice but to ban you from posting the forum. This is not okay and I’m sick and tired of looking at every other post you make like it’s a PR disaster.

Please, take my words seriously on this. Nobody here agrees with you on this.

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Of course, you won’t. No one will debate me, obviously. The reasons for this, are clear.

I didn’t say any false narratives. The fact that censorship is on your side, doesn’t mean im talking false narratives.

I have everything my opponents don’t have. I have studies to support every single of my claims, i have thousands of testimonies of people who had sex with adult people when they were “minors”, historical facts are on my side, studies from biology, sociology, psychology, and psychiatry, are on my side. You know that i would win the debate, so you don’t want to debate with me. But even if we have a debate here, on this forum, you would still win, even when you don’t have any arguments against me. Do you know why is that? Because, whoever wins or loses in a public debate, is decided by the audience’s reposne - and you, Mr. Chie, have the home-field advantage, because the debate will be on this forum, and the other users on this forum already support you, not me, meaning that even if i win, i will still lose, and you will be the winner.

Not only you, but many more people refuse to debate me, because they know the truth is on my side, but since the truth damages their emotional comfort, they prefer to ignore the truth, and to replace the truth with insults, threats, and alternative facts. Building their own echo chamber helps them to find other people who think like them, so together they can scream at everyone who even thinks about facts.

For example, saying sex between adult people and young people, is biologically normal, will result in insults and threats, because what you said can be “”“”“”“debunked”“”“”“”“”", when you don’t show any studies to support your claims.

When you show studies to support your claims, your claims can no longer be “”“”“”“debunked”“”“”, so the result is ban or block - this is what happens on FB and Twitter, the so-called “free speech” platforms.

As long as people, who disagree with me, have control over bans, censorship, kick, lock, and block, it doesn’t matter how well im doing against them, the hateful anti-MAP flock will still cheer and jeer on everthing i say.
When i debate random people, the debate quickly evolves from a scientific debate to a debate of strategists. When this happens, facts no longer matter - the only thing that matters, is the strategy.
If my opponent starts using emotionally-loaded words, fear-mongering strategies that will increase the fears of people, false claims, misrepresented and misleading data, i will lose the debate in an instant.
Because objective truth doesn’t matter. In fact, all actual evidence will be ignored, if the evidence damages the emotional comfort of people.
However, people know what the reality is, but they will ignore it, because the reality is not part of their emotional comfort.
According to most people i know, it matters what they believe rather than what the facts and truth are. In this case, any debate will be meaningless.

What i say, is the objective truth, and it doesnt matter that people reject what i say. It doesn’t matter how easily people’s anti-MAP claims can be disproven, debunked, and proven wrong. When it comes to what people call “pedophilia”, this has never been intended to be honest discussion, this will be show, circus - game of misrepresentation, false claims, emotions, fears, and misdefinition of words, which mean the words will lose meaning, which also mean that my OWN KNOWLEDGE AND CREDIBILITY WILL BE USED AGAINST ME.
Objective truth is not determined by what people think or believe, but by analysis of the facts, where each person’s claims are tested against the evidence.

Anti-MAPS don’t have any credibility. They mix long, complex, scientific words, and misrepresented data, to create the illusion of knowledge and credibility.

You never accepted my idea you to comment and try to debunk the studies, video interviews, and testimonies i have, which exposes your insecurity about the topic.

I undertand you, my friend. I know what you feel when you know something is going to harm your emotional comfort. This is why i will no longer to convince you otherwise. I apologize, i will no longer ty to convince you read the evidece.
If you want to believe that “pedophilia” is an actual thing that is very harmful and destructive, then you free to believe that.

Just because nobody agrees with me, it doesnt mean im wrong. If you join the Ku Klux clan, and say that black people are humans, no one will agree with you, does that mean you are wrong when you say black people are humans? Of course, it doesn’t. Races don’t even exist, there is no such thing as races. Races is entirely made up label, just like pedophilia. If you think that pedophilia is an actual thing, not just some label of hate, please provide me with MRI scan results, and genetic test.

Why ban? Why do you think i have to be banned? Why do you think that things must happen by force? No, things dont need force to happen. If Mr. @terminus tells me, personally, he don’t want to see me on this forum anymore, i will leave, and i wont post anymore here. Im not here to harass people, or something like that. If Terminus dont want me here, i will leave without the need of ban or any other kind of forced kick.

I will say it again: Im very sorry for the fact what i said harmed you. I will no longer talk any facts, because it’s obvious that some people simply can’t handle it. I will wait another 5-10 years.

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It shouldn’t have to be up to me. I have my hands full. That’s why I have called for volunteers to help moderate this forum. Once we have that team in place, you would probably find your account more secure if you stopped promoting the idea that it’s OK for minors to have sex with adults. I’m still not sure whether you actually believe that, or are just trying to draw controversy to the forum, but it’s a red line for us and always has been.

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I think the phrase “sexual activity between adults and children is always abuse” is incomplete. It should be “sexual activity between adults and children is always legally abuse” Some teenagers are quite capable of making their own decisions. I started at 14. I’m not sure what the legalities were 50 years ago, but I don’t regret the experience. But you can’t tell who is or is not capable, so the law is not a bad idea. Sometimes it just needs a little more flexibility.

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I get what you’re saying, but ultimately the age of consent exists for a reason, and that reason is understood to be valid.
I don’t think there’s any more room for it to be flexible. Children and young teenagers are especially prone to sexual exploitation by sexual predators, and the law exists as a firm barrier.

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Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate your position, too. And I am neither advocating for nor encouraging such contacts. I am saying that, from personal experience, that it isn’t always abuse. It must remain illegal, however mandatory minimums for incarceration and an automatic sex offenders registry listing should be considered as unacceptable. The judge and jury in the case should evaluate all the information to determine the appropriate response. After all, the punishment should fit the crime. If there is no harm done, then the punishment should reflect that.

I know this sounds radical these days, but the only people who tend to report CSA are those traumatized by it. Anyone who may have had a positive experience as I had, simply is not going to say anything due to the universal opprobrium they can expect.

I do think, as an intellectual debate, that having an older, more mature and experienced partner to learn about sex from, would be an improvement over the fumblings of a couple of clueless, horny teenagers. Just a thought exercise.

To repeat, I do NOT approve of consensual adult/child sex, but I know it can and has happened. As for nonconsensual adult/child sex, I do think that a quick and painless death is too good for them. ( My wife was a victim of physical, emotional and sexual abuse as a child, it tends to color my attitudes on forced interactions.)

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Computers and phones can be used for many things, but can also be used to download actual CSAM.
Verdict: Not Banned.

Dolls can be used for many things, not just sex, and has nothing at all to do with CSA or children.
Verdict: Banned.

Sad. Another lost soul of a state in America. How many more are due to fall?

The saddest part of this is banning dolls is not going to magically stop CSA. Dolls would need to actually be responsible for CSA in order for the banning to result in a reduction of CSA. Even if every every state had them banned, CSA will still continue to thrive just as strong. You can’t plant apple seeds and expect to harvest oranges. There is nothing in our world that works like this. Nothing.