Ok, this is not something easy and we won’t do big steps before we know we can do something like this but yeah i think we should discuss what we can do to decriminalize Art, fiction and even sex dolls in these countries that criminalized it, what i can think for now is that we need more researches to prove that lolicon isn’t inherently harmful to challenge the laws in court and also quoting international human rights law since even when the UN committee of childrens attempted to regulate art and fiction, UN human rights experts stated that banning art and fiction would violate international human rights and law and freedom of speech
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Then how come Lolicon is legal in Sweden? I know you quoted that as a joke but if i were to blame someone for making loli illegal in these countries, i would blame conservative old farts, i mean take in the UK and Australia small-chested women can’t make porn because they are considered children and also in UK they banned BDSM and lot of stuff, the fact that now even “liberals” are attacking art and fiction is concerning
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Whether it’s harmful or not is important, but not the most relevant factor for a lot of opponents of lolicon. They also feel that whether or not it is harmful, it’s immoral and that the state is entitled to ban it on that basis alone. This is really an ideological disagreement about the role of government. So in addition to proving that it’s not harmful to children, we also have to demonstrate that criminalizing art and fiction merely because they are “immoral” is generally illegal under international law.
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But how we can do it
Legally speaking, the best way to challenge laws is either in that country’s constitutional court (the Supreme Court in the case of the USA), or in a regional human rights court (the European Court of Human Rights in the case of Europe). But we are in no position to do that right now. Maybe in a few years time.
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Pauper internet pirates aren’t going to do it, that I know for sure.
How many users actually responded to it? I would assume most probably rolled their eyes or shrugged. I never got that thread however.
It’s a very disadvantageous position, as one can’t simply argue towards neutrality and free speech, but have to instead reverse the argument back onto them by saying that it is in-fact them who are endangering children by removing outlets. Very disadvantageous indeed.
Taking an absolutist standpoint towards everything doesn’t really help anyone and I also think that about a certain pro-contact who thinks that bashing through the underage sex laws and encouraging people to break it will eventually make it crumble. That isn’t really how it works and complicates things. Most of them are more lawful or neutral, but that one, I can’t tell if that was a troll.
Like i said in the first message, Human rights expert reminded us that fictional content is protected under international law, and also keep in mind that there are more countries(Denmark,Finland,Japan,Spain,Sweden for example) that decided to decriminalize lolicon rather than ones that actually criminalize it and also two of these(UK and Australia) lack of a real legislation about freedom of speech but yeah it’s still pretty controversial material that make puritans’s skin cramble. So what we can do is to enforce internation human rights law and try to put precedents in North American and European courts
Sexist comments from ATF aside, it is a fact that many people prefer sacrificing some of their fundamental things just to not be exposed to someone saying a n-word on the internet or seeing a loli picture. They don’t understand they’re putting a rope on their own neck when the demands pile up and people begin to vote into offices extreme authoritarians and despots.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Lolicon_News/status/1194696433678598145
It appears that someone was arrested over WRITTEN content, would this person challenge the law up to Supreme Court? I think he will since he claims that even drawings are art, i think we should look into this event
The European Court of Human Rights might be able to do it, they have forced the U.K. to do many things they didn’t want to do (although, they refused to obey them in the matter of giving prisoners the vote), but you would have to prove that it is a positive thing and not just promoting child abuse.
Citing that it is art doesn’t cut it, freedom of speech in their eyes stops right where someone else’s rights start, you would have to point to a actual reduction of crime due to it. If Prostasia can produce this research, then that would be highly beneficial. There are also the supreme courts of various countries around the world where you could maybe set a precedent.
The European Convention on Human Rights is not the same thing as the European Union and should not be affected by the U.K. potentially leaving, to my knowledge. They may rebel however over it.
I thought only Canada arrested people over literature, even the U.K. doesn’t go that far.
They use the word “trafficked” a lot, did they invoke Fosta?
Prove that its positive? Easy.
Lots of lolicon stories and art, both pornographic and not, are filled with stranger danger motif’s. Shoujo Ramune is the more notable one that comes to recent mind. It matters not whether it’s a hentai or not, it’s still a story and it’s still portraying a stranger danger crime in action. Being inspired by child abuse crimes even dates back to the original lolicon, Lolita, in with the Sally Horner kidnap/raping. It’s been a regular habit of lolicon since to take crimes and discourses surrounding children and turn them into seemingly cutesy and sometimes erotic stories. It normalizes knowing how the crime develops to where the public knows how to spot it as the crime develops. Especially when it’s entertaining about it. People respond better to a story than a lecture anyways.
On top of that, lolicon in general helps pedophiles control their sexual compulsions (obviously). It’s not like pedophiles are born evil. No human is. That’s one thing polititions and anti-pedos need to get. Pedophilia is a life long disorder.
Normal pedophiles don’t like this attraction just as much as everyone else but still need to quell the urges somehow. They are still human. And humans have sexual needs.
So by legalising AND normalizing lolicon, you are killing two birds with one stone. If you need a strong example of how effective it is at countering crime and preventing, Japan has the lowest child sexual abuse rates in the developed world. And currently can be called the lolicon capital of the world might I add.
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Infact i was referring to European Court of Human Rights, even though there’s also Europe Court of Justice for the EU, but the countries that criminalized loli in Europe are Norway and UK so better appeal to the first one but how
I agree that erotica such as hentai and lolicon could have positive attributes to them; take myself for example. I had spent my entire life being bi-curios or overly sexually stimulated. I’ve been exposed to online pornography and such since 2005 due to its presence on Newgrounds, and thanks to it, I have an outlet to unleash my sexual desire without having to hurt myself or others with that which was otherwise taboo, both in mention and in practice. The only problem is that many elitist politicians, psychologists, and such refuse to support something they dislike for irrational, hostile reasons. Most couldn’t say something like “I believe Lolicon can stop pedophilia and here is why!”, without fearing the social ramifications and blatant alienation from people who shun and suppress things they can’t even remotely tolerate nor understand. I think it would help having support from the opposite sex, as it would greatly help downplay the stigmatization if someone explained why lolicon didn’t offend them despite how their gender is portrayed in it.
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…I don’t know what any of this has to do with gender
What I’m trying to say is… it is very difficult to defend or comprehend something you have a preconceived or hostile notion of.
Well it’s all about how you present it. Sometimes playing up with and then defying expectations is a good way to get something across. I did this with my dad by telling him even pedos don’t want to harm children when we were talking about child sex dolls when he started saying how they would encourage abuse. It threw him in for a loop for a bit but the more I explained the situation along with tossing in how nobody is born evil, the more he started to understand better, ending with “well I kinda find it icky and uncomfortable”, which is ok. Personal taste. But he did get it, and that’s the important part. (Also keeping an eye on emotional cues from others and be gentle with them. Those are make or break of them either listening or shutting down. All the facts in the world won’t get through to someone with a shield up)
Also maybe remind/explain to people that the “leads to abuse” argument was originally meant to get CP banned because the CPornographer was creating content for an audience that would pay money for it, thus leading to more abuse of the child in those movies.
It only works because there’s already a group of abusers involved, an active abuser making the content and passive abusers who either do nothing or rewarding the active abuser for creating it. There’s a tangibility to the steps. Nothing is arbitrary or a vague connection. Money is a motivator after all.
This abuse cycle is broken with lolicon being fictional. That’s the moral beauty of lolicon. If lolicon encourages anything it’s nostalgia and more lolicon.
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It kind of depends on what you mean by “child pornography”.
There is what you would consider “sexually exploitative” (a nebulous definition) and what you’d consider “abusive”. Paying for the first would definitely encourage them to produce more of it, they seem to be commercial.
The second is a bit more complicated. There are many types of people involved here. Some seem to do it for fun because they enjoy having sex with kids (pedophiles), some are impoverished families with barely enough food to eat in third world countries who do it for money (you can read about the livestreamers in the news) and there are likely other people involved too.
If someone pays for it, in one way or another, they should be treated more harshly. If there are more people present in an area, then the probability of someone paying for something is also higher, although that is a very complicated thing to model.
When you consider that that is likely the only thing that passes for a community for them, the probability of them paying for it is even higher.
If one day you opened the floodgates by declaring production, distribution and possession legal, I am sure that every commercial porn site would jump on the bandwagon without even batting an eye. They have no morals in the slightest.
I’m not sure if lolicon is realistic enough for everyone. There is some realistic stuff, but it’s very rare and you have to dig very deep. A lot of lolicon is scaled-down adults, especially the curves, which pedophiles don’t really like so much. Pedophiles don’t really like boobs either, the ones who like that are more hebephiles. Some sites cater to pedophiles better than others.
I’m not sure hebephilia (other than exclusive and ones where they lean too far in one direction) even exists. There is an estimate that they make up 20% of the world population, but some estimates push it as far as 90%.
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Some English sites have a lot of it, but you have to use the right keywords to expose it and other bits take a bit of digging or getting a friend to find some for you.
There seem to be tags for it in Japanese (the source of it all), and I spent a year or so learning that language, so I would never run out of them ^-^
I would recommend that other people learn the language too, it only takes a little slice of each day to eventually get yourself up to proficiency.