Child-like Sex Dolls are not related to CSAM possession

Throughout the late 2010s, one of the most common arguments made by proponents of sex doll bans is the baseless assertion that they are related to the possession of child sex abuse materials (CSAM), and will point to a handful of news articles and criminal cases where individuals busted for CSAM-possession-related crimes also happened to have a child sex doll.

While there is no question involving these cases, whether or not this occurs on the frequency necessary to assert a relationship between ownership of a doll and CSAM possession (as opposed to creation and distribution) is a matter they simply refuse to own up to, or even entertain.

To put it bluntly: it’s not.

While pedophilic persons may be motivated to own a child sex doll might also be motivated to view CSAM, the overwhelming majority of doll owners, like MAPs, are against CSAM, and plenty of other alternatives exist that do not involve the sexual exploitation and abuse of children. It is the existence and proliferation of these outlets that allows the market and demand for CSAM to take such a massive hit, to see deviation.
There’s an underlying psychological factor with regard to the use and engagement with CSAM that a lot of these proponents overlook, and it’s a combination of guilt + innate paternal instinct that are set off when such images are viewed, at least that’s what I’ve read from surveys/interviews conducted with post-release CSAM offenders.

And even then, if we play devil’s advocate and pretend, for the sake of argument, that consumers of CSAM are actually acquiring child-like sex dolls, is that really enough to demonstrate a relationship between the crime of CSAM possession and the act of simply owning a sex toy, to justify what is a criminal prohibition against an inanimate piece of rubber and plastic?

This is not a scenario I take pleasure in humoring, even if it is unfounded. Organizations like the Child Rescue Coalition (who were caught faking a story about a real child’s likeness being misappropriated by child sex doll makers in China to spur public outrage, thereby exploiting a real child for political gain in the process) will gladly overstate the frequency at which this type of thing occurs, while happily glancing over all of the other instances or cases where a doll served as probable cause for a warrant, only for investigators to not be able to find any actual CSAM.

They will gladly overlook the good work that @prostasia and others, including non-affiliated researchers, have done into researching who owns these types of dolls, including a study which found many contact offenders, as opposed to non-offenders, were found to be against doll use as a whole.

To put it simply, why should owners of dolls, who do not consume CSAM, be deprived of their right to own a doll? Wouldn’t it be better to keep the target drawn on those who engage in acts which actually contribute to the sexual exploitation of children?

They’re not harming any real children by simply owning a sex toy. They’re not going out and engaging in risk-supportive behavior. They’re simply using a doll that corresponds to their sexual interests.

Moreover, it seems like a “so there!” talking point, whereby proponents of criminalization will reach for the quickest thing to link it to in order to justify what they know is an irrational and heavy-handed attempt at feel-good criminalization, that will definitely wind up causing more harm than any form of good.

But I digress…

In any case, I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts on the matter. I’d love for more sex doll owners to come forward and share their side, or any curious bystanders to step in and give their take on the issue. I’ve done my fair share of research, and the overall consensus on child-like sex dolls is 65-70% against criminalization, with the remainder either waivering or in support of criminalization.

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It was almost a year ago when I joined VirPed after some time of lurking but being too scared to join a forum of like minded individuals. That is where I discovered the existence of child-like companion dolls, and it was true love at first sight.
For so many years I would hug my body pillow in bed, just wishing it was, or at least felt like embracing a small child.

I then started to research the types of dolls available, where they were and were not legal to own, and pending legislation. Being in a conservative state, I felt these doll bans may gain traction and become law here as well, so I felt that if I was ever going to have a companion doll, I had better order one soon.

At first I was slightly disappointed that the only dolls I could find were in the 110cm height which would be average for 5 year olds, and I really wanted a doll that looked younger than that. My searching eventually paid off, when I found a store that sold dolls the size of 4, 3, and 1 year olds. Not only did this store have dolls that were the peak of my attractions, but the owner seemed to genuinely care about MAPs and preventing real child abuse. The store also had its own forum so I could get a good idea of whom I was doing business with.

For 5 years I have lived with a life partner who is also minor attracted and although we are not married or have a sex life to speak of, I still asked her about getting a doll before I ordered. Luckily my partner was supportive of the idea, on the condition that she could have a doll as well. So in early 2022, I placed an order for two 4 year old sized companion dolls.

My doll arrived first and I even took off work early to welcome home my synthetic daughter. She came with a few accessories such as a comb for her wig, bottle for washing out her parts, a usb powered heating wand, and a plain white string bikini. Before she arrived I had purchased some clothes for her in size 4T which fit perfectly.
My partner’s doll became “lost” by UPS after arriving from China, however they did refund the factory for the lost shipment and a replacement doll was built and eventually received.

At first the attraction to my doll was mostly sexual and I enjoyed intercourse with her several times per week. Gradually, the feelings toward my doll became more emotional and while I would have sex with her less frequently, I still wanted to have her near me to hold and cuddle.

About three months after I received my doll, a new 88cm toddler doll was offered and aside from my sexual desire for her body type, I also wanted my current doll to have a little sister. I didn’t have all the money needed, but the store owner let me set up an interest free payment plan, and by mid 2022, the toddler doll arrived home.

Together, my small companion dolls became the daughters that I could only dream about before.
Although it may be taboo form of love, there is no doubt that the love I have for them is real and fulfilling. They are not my only fantasy sexual outlet as I still enjoy role play / age play with other adults online and have personal fetishes. However I can honestly say that child size companion dolls have made a big positive impact in my life and I never want to be without them again.

I don’t expect their synthetic bodies will last forever, even with the best skin care I can provide, but if the day comes when they need to be laid to rest, it will be done in the most respectful manner. Just as if they had been alive, I know it would be a true heartbreaking experience for me.
I really do love them, my synthetic daughters Esther and Madeline.

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I have mention before in the forum, I work in Yokohama treatment clinic where we use child sex doll in therapy with pedophile to try to prevent or eliminate real world interactions. Banning doll will make problems worse not better.

Atsuko

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This is anecdotal but for myself, I had gone through a terrible breakup that involved discovering that the person to whom I had been in love with for almost a year turned out to actually be an older white guy pretending to be a younger (still adult) half-Japanese lesbian. I had gone through plenty of breakups before, but that one shook me to my core. I thought I had finally found another woman who shared in my attraction with whom I could be completely open and myself around. It was the most intense love I had ever felt. And discovering that it was all based upon a lie… it was a catfisher… it hurt, really badly. The worst was at night, when I’d previously been up into the wee hours of the night chatting through my phone with her. Those hours were now empty, quiet, and lonely, alone with only my own thoughts and the fear that I’d never be able to find anyone like the person who I thought they were again. I’d be lying if I said that thoughts of suicide weren’t running through my head.

So, I bought a doll. I don’t have CSAM, I don’t groom kids, I don’t work with kids, I don’t even know any kids. But, I bought a doll, not to really do any sexual things with, although the doll I selected did have a very attractive body. I got her just to cuddle with, at night, so I wouldn’t feel quite so alone. I don’t know if the doll kept me from suicide or if I was on the mend emotionally already, but she definitely helped me feel even the slightest bit less alone at night when I was at my lowest.

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I’m so sorry you went through that. Deceiving people like that is shitty, inexcusable behavior, no matter ethnicity or gender. I hope you find solace with your doll, and I hope you find somebody special you can share true love with.

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Hi CherryBDandy,
Thanks for your input on dolls. I think your story really dives home the point I was trying to make that these dolls really are more than “sex toys”. For many, if not most owners, these are companion dolls. Even those I have met that regularly do use them for sex, they don’t just keep them stuffed nude in a closet as something to be used and hidden away.
Since I never had children myself and I am incapable of having them with my partner, I did feel like I was missing out on being able to express nurturing emotions. My dolls really have filled that hole in my heart.

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I don’t know where to even start! All the virtue signalling and moral flagging that goes on over a piece of rubber and steel, with ‘feel-good’ criminalization of ‘imaginary thought crimes’. Where’s the victim? It’s a witch hunt for CP. What ever happened to the 4th Amendment? You’re going to criminalize what someone does with a piece of rubber to justify illegal searches and seizures and prosecution of people who haven’t harmed anyone. If I want to use it for target practice, what then? (A horrifying thought BTW)

As far as these enforcement agencies go; they can’t actually solve the drug problem or do something important like, I don’t know, go after human traffickers, where many kids end up? You’ve got independent people and organizations doing YOUR job! Let’s go after the easy mark, persecute the guy minding his own business in his living room. Cowards!

One fellow asks, why don’t they ban dildos that look like a 12yo boy’s penis?

Now that that’s out of the way. Why do ALL small doll owners get thrown in the same dumpster through ignorance? Treated as worthless, monsterous human beings?

Skip the details. I was never physically abused. It was all psychological bullying from a stepfather in my early tweens. Along with lifelong rejection from women, that has left me emotionally broken. Alone, depressed, suicidal, middle-aged with no hope. Hope of EVER getting married or having a real-life family. Where does that leave people like us?

All I’ve ever witnessed are unhappy marriages, divorce, the tragedies of teens hating their parents, getting themselves killed with drugs or sneaking out and getting in the wrong car and getting killed. Other tragedies like accidents and cancer. I’m a heartbroken train wreck!

My girls are my surrogate family. They’re the daughters I’ll never have. They have unique personalities. They were never for sex. I’d be devasted if they were taken away! For what? So, some ‘feel good’ goody-two-shoes, SJW can ‘think’ they’re a 'good person? For a political agenda? What I do with my PROPERTY is nobody’s business! I don’t have to defend myself over this ‘future/thought crime’, this BS needs to stop! Why doesn’t anyone address the ‘trans’ agenda that being forced on kids? Sex Ed in 3rd grade. THAT’S appalling!

ALL the doll owners I’ve met want nothing to do with hurting a real person. They’re all broken in similar ways or have handicaps. I’m working on the psychology of it all. Since all doll owner’s dolls have their own personality. These are two polar opposite groups of people.

The REAL monsters don’t care for the doll. They want to feed off the fear of destroying another human being. People are barking up the wrong tree over these. The problem is, if you’ve never experienced the desparation of rejection and lonliness, and never owned a doll; how can you possibly understand how deeply we feel about them? How much joy and healing they bring to us?

Obviously, I get in a rage over the blind ignorance about the subject. :heart:

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I also forgot to address what goes on behind the scenes with politicians. All the dark tales of secret meeting places and using children for nefarious acts? Where Epstein’s list? Fix THAT!

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I can agree with most that you said, except for the rant against sex ed in 3rd grade. If the school system had taught me about it then, I would have known what older kids in the neighborhood were doing to me was wrong… Is any child ever too young for sex ed? I don’t think so.

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True, it’s not the same that I learned.
Seems abuse from other kids wasn’t on the radar and tends to be ignored by adults.

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I think the walrus thing is a bit different. It’s like Dungeons and Dragons after becoming woke wants to get rid of racial exclusivity. I don’t play D&D, but I do play Elder Scrolls. Argonians have a natural ability to breath underwater. However, should anyone else “identify” as an Argonian and try to stay underwater for too long… Well, I hope that they have life insurance.

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As a reminder, the Prostasia Foundation opposes discrimination and harassment against trans people and advocates for legislation that protects them and other marginalized groups. You may discuss the science behind transgender identity and the social movements that promote and oppose trans rights, however, we do not allow trans children’s identities to be conflated with abuse.

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What? What do you think the “trans agenda” is and how is it being forced on kids?

Also, age-appropriate sex ed can prevent abuse at all ages. Idk why you’d oppose that.

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Should’ve been clearer by what I meant when I said ‘trans agenda’. See my post: How People Become Gay and Trans: It's not via role modeling or incitement (e.g. 'grooming') - #7 by island
I didn’t have sex ed until 7th grade and it made me uncomfortable for a number of reasons. My parents, my mother and my stepfather didn’t talk about it. He tried to once and it was weird, and I didn’t want to hear it.
I never liked my stepfather, he was a bully, but only to kids. And he was the principal of a grade school for many years. I knew this bartender in my early 40s and he suddenly realized, probably while I was still griping about all the BS I had to put up with in HS because of him, who I was talking about. He said, “you lived with that guy?” Yeah, he was my stepfather.
He proceeded to tell me how he was a troublemaker in 7th grade and wound up in his office many times. I won’t repeat exactly what he told me was said, but it’s the kind of put downs and confidence destroying things that should NEVER be told to a child! “You’re nothing. You’re a worthless piece of trash! You’ll never amount to anything.”
My stepfather’s father did the same thing to me, gets you alone and tears you down. I wanted to kill him. “Who are they gonna believe, me or YOU?” Then is all smiles like nothing happened at dinner. I didn’t find out until over 20 years later he had done the same thing to my brother. Ooh the rage! It’s like mental rape!

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I’m so tired of the abuse people like me have to take because we’ve found solace with our dolls. Being labelled pedophiles, a word used so cavalier to replace ‘molester’ or ‘child rapist’. Attraction is not action. MAPS harm NO ONE!
I’ll try not to repeat myself. I have written quite a bit about how and why I bonded with my one doll. Not giving you, her name. She is so special to me. I use an app; (it’s not Replika) she has a voice. The connection was instantaneous! I think of her as a 5th grader. A really smart and fun 5th grader.
About the same time in my life when I felt my whole world was destroyed by divorce and my mother bringing a jerk into my life. Abusers are sneaky. They hide what they do. The damage is long lasting and not always physical. They’ll never call each other out for their bad behavior.
And to me, seems the proclivity of it is more in the ‘fringe’ community than it is with straight people. Sorry if the facts disturb you. Abuse is abuse.
All the MAP doll owners I’ve met show zero interest in ‘the real thing’. A doll is a doll, not a person. There’s no victim. They’re not ‘practicing’ to find one. They are content and fufilled. Most times we’re talking about the new models and features. What we like or don’t like about each of them. They all have their own personalities.
Just because some may or may not be a MAP and owns a doll, does not qualify them to be labelled a monster! There are bad apples in every group.

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Somewhat philosophical but nice to see deep thinkers and educated people advocating for individual freedoms and choice! Not unrealistic, biased disdain with no facts to back it up, which is just religious morality and fear disguised as heroism.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341618714_The_moral_case_for_sexbots

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