I was thinking about my Betty Boop post and how America’s first animated sex symbol is also canonically a minor… Yet no one seems to be worried about that, nor has her character been linked to normalizing minor abuse. Some people believe the younger generation isn’t aware she exists (I disagree, but whatever), so I decided to think on it, do some research and… It came to my conclusion that there are more recent versions in Western media that is seen as acceptable, yet when Japan (or the East in general) does it, it becomes an issue.
COMICS:
I know a thing or two about comics, and I’m by no means an expert, but if any comic book readers are reading this… Please feel free to provide your own examples. Anyway, comics have artwork of fictional (sometimes ambiguous) minors in either very revealing clothing or nothing at all.
Teen Titans: This one is the vaguest of them all. There is no official age for the characters, but typically anti-lolicons tend to bring up the ambiguity of things… The thing is, the ages of these characters are pretty ambiguous. The artists drawing Starfire, Raven, etc. are all hypothetically drawing fictionalized minors in skimpy clothing. The only canon age I could find in regards to this was one version of Starfire, from a rebooted universe, being 18… Every other version of the character could be 14-17 for all the audience knows. There’s a reason they’re called the Teen Titans, why isn’t anyone talking about the moral implications of artists sexualizing (potentially underaged) fictional minors and the readers for consuming such material?
CARTOONS:
And then there’s Western cartoons which tend to have more concrete ages…
Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated: Looking around, the canon ages for the characters during Season 1 were 16-17, and the characters were portrayed as highschoolers… In Episode 4, the audience is treated to a scene of a 16 year old Daphne in a bikini while Velma rubs lotion onto her back. I’m leaning towards it being 16 myself, as this was close to the beginning of the series as opposed to the latter half of the first season. No complaints from anyone as far as I can see.
I am sure there are plenty more examples than what I could find or think of, if anyone else has any examples, feel free to comment down below but… Why is it that people are against anime and such doing this, but seem quiet/supportive with Western media doing it?
For that matter, with this type of content being produced in America, for American audiences… This has some interesting questions on the normalization argument that anti-lolicons bring up for why loli content should be banned/censored (much like how Betty Boop does). For one, the ambiguously legal Teen Titans have had sexualized members in their team for decades, but America isn’t full of people who think it’s ok to try the same thing with actual minors. For the definitely minor fictional characters, we have to ask why the people who read such comics aren’t cause victimizing children?
Why aren’t the people who consume/produce this content being treated like monsters, while those who create/purchase loli content are apparently menaces to society?
Why haven’t any of these been linked to encouraging CSA, yet loli content is?
Well, frankly, I get off to every last bit of it, so it’s fine by me either way, regardless of the invalid opinions of stupid peasants. I’m more annoyed by the fact that media in both places seem more accepting of male nudity than female nudity. In Jobless Reincarnation, during a bath scene, Rudeus showed his penis just fine, but Sylphiette could not even show nipples. IIRC, Aqua Knight, and older volumes of Dragon Ball show Goku penis, while Rosine showing her vagina in Berserk is something that’s super rare.
Yeah, males and females are portrayed differently in fiction in regards to nudity. Something something “girls need to be protected.” True equality would be treating them the same.
Because it mocks them. From my experience, the only people who have a genuine bone to pick with loli/shota pornography seem to be those who are the biggest pedophiles themselves. This is not an ad hominem, strawman, or mischaracterization designed to undermine or misrepresent them and their points, but rather I’m just speaking from experience.
They treat loli the same way someone treats an offensive joke, but fallaciously extrapolate it to be about child exploitation than how it makes them feel. Just look at the UN and their campaign to get its nation states to recognize fictional or cartoon portrayals of child pornography as the real thing, wherein the United States, Japan, and Austria dissented, citing free speech and the fact that no real child exists, so treatment isn’t warranted.
Some of those very advocates within the UN were found to be sexually exploiting and harming real children.
I could go on and on about the various people from Twitter who were openly anti-loli, anti-free speech, and anti-ship that were also found to be. or were credibly accused of grooming or behaving inappropriately with actual children.
And considering the rhetoric they spew is cut and pasted from the kind employed by culture critics, like soccer moms of the late 90s after Columbine with Doom and violent video games, Protestant Christians and… well… everything.
I will affirm my genuine belief that contentions regarding lolicon/shotacon and other forms of pornographic, pedophilic fiction being “harmful” in some way are not validated externally and are just the same, recycled talking points they don’t expect people to argue with because of the social stigma surrounding it. Literal Mccarthyism and high-school tier tactics guiding policy decisions that affect the rights and lives of real people for absolutely nothing.
It’s beyond just that, as one could make the argument that a lot of things in the Western world have interesting implications if you think about them.
Such as middle/high schoolers being gymnasts and the entire point is for adults to judge how flexible a minor is while they’re wearing leotard (with bare legs if they’re female) exposed and probably spreading her legs for the (adult) judges to see.
Nobody has a problem with this for some reason in the West.
It seems to be a level of projection on some level.
Some anti-lolicons seem to just think it’s disgusting and leave it at that, but for the type you mentioned… Yeah, it seems way too personal for some of them. I get it makes people uncomfortable, but the hatred of it is going into, “I don’t want to be reminded of what I am!” territories with some people.
For others, it seems to be based on conditioning, where irrational fear overcomes logic. I knew someone who was the same way (being very religious like you mentioned), but they eventually realized, “Eh, it’s a cartoon, why do I care?”
One more thing before I forget, maid cafes are seen as weird… But cheerleaders are arguably wearing more revealing clothing, or at least a comparable amount to those seen in maid cafes, and their entire thing is about performing acrobatics while dressed like that.
It seems like the West has this weird thing where, “It’s ok when WE do it” going on for this type of thing.
Which further makes me feel camaraderie to vampires. Whenever I play as a vampire, I will often make fun of other Kindred who get all emo “wah, my eternal life and thirst suck” unjustified depression mode. Do not deny the Beast. Instead, feed it only when you yourself choose to.
I wish Japan and the United States would ban gravure idols or instill some rules so they’re nowhere near as exploitive or sexually evocative. Many idols go on to have careers in modeling for fashion and adversities, but the majority who fall by the wayside are swept up in a sea of shame, known only for what their parents allowed/forced them to do and by the pedophiles who watch them.
The same applies to the beauty pagent cultures here in the US, with young girls and their self esteem being commoditized.
Some anti-lolicons seem to just think it’s disgusting and leave it at that, but for the type you mentioned… Yeah, it seems way too personal for some of them. I get it makes people uncomfortable, but the hatred of it is going into, “I don’t want to be reminded of what I am!” territories with some people.
Not anti-lolicon, but can confirm. My desires and urges are VERY hypersexual and extreme, causing me insane temptation and guilt. At my lowest points, fully giving in to madness, I start lying to myself about how lolicon is evil and whatnot. This irrational hatred comes from immense shame and fear, trying to be like:
“NO! I’m not a freak, not a criminal, not a monster! It’s THOSE guys! The pedo pervs jerkin’ it to lolicon like it’s no big deal! How can they be so OK with it while I suffer!? It ain’t fair! Fuck 'em!”
Which leads to:
“Look everyone! Those bastards over there are using pedo comics and cartoons to justify their sick perversions! T-they plan on grooming kids using the stuff! Burn them!!! Burn the heretics! See!? I’m not a pedophile cuz I h-hate pedophiles! I hunt them down, see!? S-see!?! Nothing wrong with me!!! No reason to burn me!!!”
Fun fact: studies have shown that those who claim to be the most homophobic are also the ones who get aroused by gay porn the most. Fascinating, is it not? I betcha the same can be applied to this situation…
Lying to ourselves and everyone else. Ain’t it tragic when a person can’t even trust or love themself because of something they can’t control? 仕方がない!
Well look. You’re not a monster, monsters are defined by their actions, not their thoughts, and I hope you’re able to find a way to live comfortably and happily.
As someone who used to work in the area of mental health, I have a lot of sympathy for those who struggle with these types of things.
There are plenty of communities which cater specifically towards helping people like yourself live happily and comfortably while also helping reduce any risk of subsequent offending.
Communities like VirPed and the MAP Support Club, the latter of which is staffed by persons from Stop It Now! and other qualified individuals.
You are not alone. You are not a monster. You have a right to be happy.
Thank you. I’ve been off my meds since Christmas, so I’m in a DARK place right now. Feeling guilty about looking at petite (but legal) porn, had a minor freak out and began punching myself. Sorry to get so depressive, I almost shot myself back in August. They took my gun away. I just don’t know what to do… I feel like a ticking bomb, I truly don’t believe I can be saved! Been suicidal from the moment I realized I liked younger children (when I was 13), currently 22. I sometimes contemplate removing one of my limbs to reduce my potential ability to do harm. Preferably a leg, in case I have a change of mind (“A man needs his hands to work!”).
I want to be a kid again. No responsibilities, no shame, just…
Dammit! Making myself cry…
Anyways, thank you again.
BTW I confided in a friend (a fellow pedophile) about how I felt. They gave the advice of quitting porn (specifically telling me it was “poisoning”; no, they’re not anti-porn (not in the slightest), they just see how self-destructive I am and believes I deliberately seek porn that, while legal, still upsets me to justify my self-loathing and feeling sorry for myself). What do you think?
Please, please do whatever you can to help stabilize your mood and temperament, and PLEASE consider going back on your medication. You shouldn’t just go off of it like that for extended periods of time.
You don’t deserve to be under this much stress.
I don’t know you as well as your friend does, but judging by your posts, it’s very clear that you’re under a great deal of stress.
Take a deep breath and listen to your friend. Pornography itself can be very beneficial, but, as is the case with literally anything, if you’re reacting to it in a way that’s causing yourself stress, then you need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and clear your mind before going forward.
You’ll be okay.
May I ask what types of medication you were taking?
I am fiction exclusive too. I like lolis, cubs, and stuffed animals. I used to feel ashamed but stopped. It’s just fiction for fucks sake! I’m not migrating to anything else because I know it would be wrong and I can tell the difference between fiction and reality.
Like someone else here said: loli will only normalize loli, and nothing else.
