Misinformation against MAPS

Im not MAP, but im supporting the liberation of these people.

Hello. Time ago i used to have groups for minor-attracted people on Twitter. All groups got suspended, because of mass reports by “antis” and people who believe in myths about pedophiles, and don’t understand what pedophilia is, and believe that if you are 18yo, but you like 17yo, you are a pedophile. These call anyone pedophile, and can’t understand that pedophilia have STRICT difinition. Twitter is not guilty for the anti-map policy changes. These changes were created under pressure from grassroot groups, users, and powerful evangelical groups. If you are aware of Exodus Cry, NCOSE, and their traffickinghub campaign that uses false, debunked stories, you will know what i mean.

What i don’t like is the fact that MAPS are being stigmatized for no reason. Today, if you say you are MAP, you will lose all friends, job, family, etc…

I created an account on pedophilia website, so now im making articles about what does it mean to be MAP, and why it’s not dangerous. However, the website is not popular, and my articles get no more than 500 views. The site is created by members of PNVD.

It’s impossible to have MAP support groups on social media, because all groups will be suspended. Making your own site is not solution, because this site will be visited only by you and other MAPS. The real purpose is to have groups on social media - because social media is viewed by everyone, so everyone will see the message.

There are people who are against MAPS, but they dont care about children. They simply want to harm MAPS. They spread dangerous misinformation, indicating ALL MAPS are dangerous monsters and deserve to be put to death. They can’t understand that MAPS dont harm children.

They can’t understand that “pedophilia” is entirely made up word, withut any meaning. They can’t understand that the majority of “rapes” are being made by someone the child already knows. In other words, the myth that pedophile is someone that must be a male, fat, ugly, hairy male, who lurks around schools and gives sugar to kids, so kids can follow him, is totally false myth. Such myths are creating distractions from reality. Also, there are double standards. On Twitter, some medias are reporting underage sex. When a female has sex with underage boy, the comment section is fine. When a male has sex with underage girl, the comment section… you know…

They should stop using “pedophile” as a slur. You can’t be sick from pedophilia. No serious scientist will tell you pedophilia is a disease. The only reason why a scientist would tell you it’s a disease, is because the society want to hear that.

If pedophilia is a disease, where are all genes that contribute to pedophilia? Where are all brain changes, hormonal changes? There are none.

I want social media to allow MAP support groups again, because i like supporting people.

Also, people should stop talking about child sex dolls. Chld sex dolls are not real humans. The people who are against child sex dolls, are the same people who think HENTAI equals rape, so it must be banned.

There is no critical thinking and logic, only emotions caused by baseless speculations and assumptions, and myths, and stereotypes.

Religious groups such as Exodus Cry, NCOSE, FTND, are contantly spreading lies about pedophiles. These groups use stereotypes. They use false rape victims. They are all exposed. All anti-map, puritan, anti-porn groups must be abolished!

Im working on my own website. It will be fact checker about anti-“pedophilia” claims.

The main source of hatred towards MAPs, is coming from far-right evangelical groups in the US. They are poweful groups that spread more groups around the world. If we limit them, the hate will be lowered. I created this petition to do so, so feel free to join it. The petition by itself has no legal power. But if enough people join it, this will cause moral weights to legislators. The petition is still not fully done, soon i will finish it. Feel free to join: [LINK REMOVED BY REQUEST]

All information in the petition is legal/legally obtained, even if it looks it’s illegal.

Also, explain me what are your political interests, and what laws you want to see be removed or created, so i can know what to write the next time. Im here to inform and support you. Should there be apetition for child sex doll legalization? What do you think about removing the sex offender registry? A lot of human rights organizations want to remove the registry.

I don’t support child sexual abuse, i.e. UNconsensual sex. Some of the text my looks like im supporting abuse, but im not

Thanks.

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If your approach to this problem is to categorize people into a singular group and channel your anger into their direction, completely missing the simple fact that individuals belonging to groups aren’t monolithic when it comes to their beliefs, opinions, personalities and every other part of what it means to be a human being, then you are completely missing the point, and you are no better than the ones that you hate.

Not only that, your efforts are counterproductive. If anyone even slightly religious, or sympathetic to some kind of religion sees the title of your petition, especially the “Restrict Religion!” part, how do you think they will respond? Will, they say “Oh, right, I agree, it’s time to restrict religion, and read more about this petition in detail!”? Of course not.

And while the separation of church and the state isn’t a bad idea, in my opinion, your way to achieve that is completely incorrect. What matters is that their influence over politics is biased, and that has negative effects on everyone who doesn’t align with their ideology. So that is the goal that I could support, to prevent that influence from the side of the church, so they can have no much power than other organizations. But also forcing them to pay taxes? For what purpose? Sure It might not be exactly fair, but even then, it’s a minor problem, so let them have it. This entire petition looks like it’s motivated by the desire for revenge, and not the desire to improve the world.

People will react emotionally because something they identify with is under attack. Upon seeing your activity, they will believe, that “Those evil MAPs has brainwashed this person to try to eliminate religion, I always knew they are driven by the Satan!”, use it to convince others, furthering the moral panic, and creating you more enemies than friends in the end.

And if you follow the arrogant belief of “well, I don’t care about making friends with those far-right evangelical groups”, then I’m sorry, you simply don’t care about achieving your goals. Sure, many people who legitimately are like that will never be “your friends”, moreover, they will be horrible human beings themselves. But among people who could be put in these categories or people who identify themselves just as “Christians” or “Catholics” or even just “spiritual”, there is a ton of people who would support your cause, but won’t, because you try to attack something they care about.

Ask yourself, what goal are you trying to achieve? Convince majority of people that they have a misconception about who MAPs really are, that they don’t really have a reason to panic, and make them understand, that while they fear and anger towards legitimate child abusers is valid, they have to be careful towards whom they target it, and what policies they made based on it since they might actually make the problem worse than better? Or metaphorically “punch” the bad guys? Because based on what you wrote, it looks like the second option is the case.

Are you seriously so gullible that you truly believe if you “limit” people, it will solve anything? Unless you plan to murder or imprison people for life, they will still have the autonomy to fight back. And they will try to reciprocate with an even bigger force for doing something against them. If your approach to solving the problem is to attack, then I’m sorry unless you murder or imprison for life the people you deem unworthy and problematic as the result, you will get nothing. This is why totalitarian and dictatorial regimes are so murderous and utilize concepts of concentration and reeducation camps.

While your anger towards a correct observation of injustice is correct and justified, the response to it is not. You aren’t going in a direction of a person who will make things better, you act like an extremist that will only polarize the division between people more for personal satisfaction. And I’m sorry, but this is definitely not the way to solve anything, it never was a method that succeeded and it will never be.

Sweeping generalization.

Why the heck is “r-pe” in quotation marks?

This is a straw man argument. I am not a huge hentai fan, but even I know there is plenty of hentai that does not involve r-pe.

This is completely untrue. I’m quite left-leaning, and my disapproval of “MAPs” has nothing to do with what far-right groups say or think.

Please no.

Wait a minute. You just implied you support people who have sexually abused children.

Uhhhh…ok, sure. That’s like going into a store and saying “It may look like I’m planning to steal something, but I assure you I’m not”. It doesn’t exactly make you look trustworthy.

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This isn’t Minority Report, dearie.

If you are anti-map, then why are you registered on this forum?

Just because he is “anti-map” doesn’t mean he doesn’t have the right to participate in discussions regarding the topic of child protection. He registered the account for that particular reason.

Also, stop pretending that you don’t understand the simple concept of miscommunication.

Most people like 47584839 understand term pedophilia through the definition of “a person who wants to rape a child”, and not the actual definition of “person who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children”. This is why he considers term Minor Attracted Person as “rebranding” of “a person who wants to rape a child” and finds it manipulative, instead of realizing, that this name has been simply used in research as an umbrella term for pedophilia, ephebophilia, hebephilia etc. to simply reduce the amount of required to write text.

Also, he has a point in saying that left-leaning individuals also tend to be disapproving od MAPs, once again, because they don’t have the actual knowledge about definitions of those words, and think that MAPs are people who want to sexually exploit children.

You can either learn the position of your opponents to be better able to fix their misconceptions and have a productive discussion with them or continue playing the tribal game of demonizing an attacking certain groups because you are angry at them.

And if you cannot learn about the position of other people, then simply stop, because your actions will only create a huge disservice to your cause, and spend time developing yourself first.

Im sure that before i register on this forum, a lot of people before me explained what “MAP” is… but obvisouly he still can’t understand that being MAP doesn’t necessary mean you are a pedophile. The term “MAP” includes all kinds of minor-attraction, not only pedophilia. But most people can’t make difference, and think that everyone who is minor-attracted is a pedophile, ignoring the fact that pedophilia has strict definition.

Also, this forum is not for anti-maps. As far as i know, the purpose of Prostasia is destigmatization and protection, rights? If he want to spread hate against MAPS, twitter is for him…

Do you expect all people to browse the entire forum searching for proper definitions of words? It doesn’t work like that. Most people after hearing the definition once, accept it as correct and don’t even consider the possibility of it being incorrect. It takes understanding and effort to explain to the person, why they have the wrong perception of a term.

Because no one has explained it to him. Most people on social media refer to MAPs the same way they would refer to child rapists. And they can’t be blamed for that, lot’s of people on social media pretend to be MAPs and say various horrendous things that make people repulsed and convinced, that their perception of MAPs is correct.

Most people don’t care about the topic of pedophilia. They have an emotional reaction when some drama happens, they shout a lot, signalize their virtue and continue living their lives as nothing happened. That is just how human psychology works.

You cannot really blame people for not being invested in the topic they have no reason to be invested in to know the correct terminology, correct facts about it etc.

You can only blame people who refuse to hear you out in good faith, when you correct their misconceptions, assuming your explanation was correct. But then again, blaming is pointless, some people will agree, some disagree, the goal isn’t to win a fight, the goal is to give interested people knowledge that they might seek.

This forum is for anyone who wants’s to talk about the topics related to the 10 categories you have on the left on the main page. How do you expect to convince people that your position is correct one if you won’t allow them to say their opinions first?

Once again, if you deplatform, silence, cancel, block, ban any person, for as long as they are still alive and free, they will continue having the same opinions, and will find ways to communicate with likeminded people creating echo chambers and reinforcing their misconceptions and misinformation. Also, how can you know you are really correct if you avoid having your opinions challenged?

Protasia is a child protection organization. Their goal is to be effective in protecting minors, nothing more. Whatever helps to achieve that goal, is being considered by them as the right course of action.

In a way, you can say that their goal is to destigmatize pedophilia, but for a different reason than that of your own. Your concern is that pedophiles are treated unjustly, it makes you understandably angry, and “you want to liberate them”.

Protasias concern is that stigma regarding pedophilia has caused a lot of harm to the mission of protecting children. Or put differently, Protasia, unlike many other child protection organizations that I’ve investigated, simply is open to any idea that could help this mission, while other organizations tend to prioritize their personal ideologies over that goal.

Protasia of course has some bias too, it’s more aligned with values of personal freedom and fight against censorship. Terminus definitely exhibits these values as well. But the same can be said about other child protection organizations, who for example, use their reputation to push ulterior goals that have more to do with their religious belief system, than the topic of child protection.

The difference is, that Protasia promotes their own values because it actually has a reason supported by empirical evidence, various research and professionals from the various fields of science to believe it will improve their efforts in making sure more minors will be protected, while the other organizations have no such reasons, and instead, use various manipulative techniques to push for things that will affect everything, except the mission they should be dealing with.

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By writing “minor-attracted person” on google, this is the first page that you will see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor-attracted_person

Saying they are not well informed, so we dont have to judge them, is not good excuse.

If people are evil, they should keep their evil negativism for themselves - they should never push negativism on other people.

When people show emotional reactions, they harm the emotions of MAPS by insulting them and hating them.

How do i expect to convice people my position is right? Well, im agruing from the position of logic, reason… science… while people argue from the position of emotions and superstitious beliefs.

If deplatformed, they wont be able to communicate. How can you communicate, if there are no telecommunication systems? There must be charges for harming MAPS, the same way there are charges for harming LGBT people. The problem is that LGBT people are included in the anti-discrimination law, while MAPS are not included in this law.

You don’t sound like pro-map. A person who doesn’t aggressively attack/DEBUNK the anti-map opinions, is not real MAP.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I DON’T SUPPORT CHILD ABUSE!

It’s not a good excuse because it’s not even an excuse. All I did was I tried to explain to you the perspective of the other side, but you instead try to completely misinterpret my words because that is the only option you are left with to even be able to counterargument my points.

People simply don’t have a need to question things they believe they have enough knowledge of. Do you wake up every morning asking yourself “Do I know the definition of milk?” or “Maybe I should check out the definition of cereal on google”. Of course not! And this is exactly the reason why many people have a misconception about what term “Minor Attracted Person” really means.

What is your strategy exactly? Does being mean to people for not questioning the knowledge they have when they are convinced they have all the correct information about the topic leads to any goals in your opinion?

Because truth is, the only way you can achieve “liberation of MAPs”, is by simply clearing misinformation. But so far, all you do is the opposite. You want to exclude people you are disagreeing with, silence them, avoid having any discussions with them and pursue some kind of twisted vendetta against what you perceive as evil “far-right evangelical groups”, by attacking institutions that you believe are connected to them. You are exactly the same as the people you fight against, the only difference is your polarization on this topic.

Wishful thinking doesn’t do anything. You might wish that “evil” people should keep their evil negativism for themselves and not push it onto others, but it will simply not happen, no matter how many times you will hope for it.

What does it have to do with anything I said? Your response is in no way connected to the quote of mine that you used and carries no point on its own. “People emotions are harmed when they are insulted” is your response to me explaining to you why people don’t know the correct definitions when it comes to this topic.

So far, you haven’t shown anything out of the things that you have mentioned. You don’t argue from the position of logic, most your responces are incoherent and unrelated to what I wrote. You haven’t cited any scientific literature either. And all the threads that you have created are based on emotional appeals, not any empirical data.

You are telling yourself that your position is coming from virtues you find as rational, but all of your actions so far proven the opposite.

Are you seriously so gullible, that you believe, you can actually silence people? Guess what, child predators all over the world are basically deplatformed from every place on earth. Yet the child pornography industry is one of the biggest in this world. They have found ways of communicating that aren’t visible to the mainstream, and they use it.

Even if you deplatform someone from sites like Twitter, they can always create their own platforms, they can communicate using phones, or word of mouth. They can meet in person to talk about stuff. People have been communicating with each other long before the internet was a thing.

Congratulations on discovering the simple truth of this organization: NO ONE IN HERE IS PRO MAP

This is a child protection organization not a MAP liberation club. People who have a pedophilic disorder will naturally be helped by the Protasia to deal with it, but that doesn’t mean they will accept the rhetoric that is used to legitimize any sexual interactions with minors.

Don’t believe me? Protasia supports initiative called MAP Support Club:

Which has rules on its very first page, rules like this:

  1. You must be committed to never engaging in sexual activity with a child.
  2. No talk about lowering Age of Consent (AoC), whatever it is where you live.
  3. No talk about adult-child sex being fundamentally OK and only harmful due to societal attitudes and reactions to its discovery, nor discussions of the topic. There are other places on the internet to have these discussions. This is not one of them.

The highlighted part is there for a reason, it’s because a lot of people tend to scream that they don’t support child abuse, but only because they redefine what they consider as abuse in such a way, that excludes “consensual” sexual intercourse with a child as not abusive, as long as it’s not violent, which is simply not correct.

No sexual activity of any kind, under no circumstances, regardless of reasons, regardless of how you call it, regardless of ideas or emotions, with anyone under the age of 18 will ever be accepted by Protasia. So if your idea of “liberation of MAPs” has anything to do with it, then It’s simply not a place you thought it to be.

And if you are wondering about my motivations to be on this site, I was investigating various child protection organizations during the past year, and Protasia has taken my interest, but also suspicion due to rather unique ideas they have been promoting. I’ve decided to make an account after I saw some individuals (antis, Qanon followers, whatever you want to call them) behaving in a very manipulative way, partially to learn about their position, and partially simply because I have found such dishonest behaviour as unjust and wanted to do something about it.

I was sexually exploited as a child, so this topic is quite important to me now that I’m an adult. So no, I’m not “pro MAP”, a “MAP”, a “MAP supporter” or anything like that. Neither I’m an enemy of MAPs unless they began spreading nonsense to rationalize “why it’s okay to sexually exploit underage people”. I have researched this topic to the best of my abilities, and while I can see that things like child sex dolls or artificial artistic productions carry no risk, and can actually be helpful, the idea that there are cases in which sexual interaction with children is something good or even neutral simply has no basis in reality.

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I believe that the first thing MAPs should do to gain support is to separate the concept of MAP from noMAP. After all, the majority of people who are averse to these group do it because they believe that every MAP wants support for the liberation of sex with prepubescent children.

In fact, I already talked to several people who had a very negative opinion about MAPs but were willing to listen to our arguments. And the main issue was just to separate MAPs that are seeking support to have sex with children, from noMAPs, who are against this and just want to be treated with respect. And anyway, when these two groups are separated many of them show interest in support the noMAPs.

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Prostasia is a child protection organisation, not a MAP rights organisation. Those goals are aligned in prostasia’s view, but if you are thinking this is a MAP rights organisation then you have misunderstood.

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Non-offending should not need to be explicitly stated, same as heterosexuals don’t have to call themselves “non-raping heterosexuals”. Using NOMAP implies that offending is the default state for MAPs, and that shouldn’t be the case. People will also keep raising the bar for “non-offending” to continue demonising MAPs.

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I believe that most people who sympathize with pedophiles know that there is a difference between rape and sex with vulnerable people. And don’t get me wrong, both should be banned, but one is far worse than the other.

I believe everyone is welcome in this forum as long as they are respectful.

I didn’t know that, but I like that idea :slight_smile: But I think that this would have to be handled with care, because it can lead to various kinds of misinterpretations.

Don’t generalize, but I believe it depends a lot on which SPECIFIC group you refer to with MAP

I disagree with you for practical reasons. Regardless of whether or not it is obvious that children should not be raped, the term MAP creates confusion among people, and turns away potential supporters of pedophiles who have no intention of breaking the law.

I would assume this was meant as “no one here is pro-contact”

I think you’re using “non-offending” to mean “anti-contact”. I understand the practical side of getting the point across and getting people to listen, but from a MAP liberation perspective it’s not really liberation. “You deserve rights as long as you adhere to standards that we’ll decide (which may very well be no contact with children at all)”, it just places conditions on our acceptance as human beings.

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I’m not sure if we agree on the same things. So to be clear about my position, it is:

Sex with children (prepubertal) is always wrong
Pedophiles are not to blame for liking what they like.
So a pedophile who decides not to abuse children on his own is worthy of admiration instead of oppression. Because he’s doing something that even I probably wouldn’t do XD

In addition, I know that there are all kinds of MAPs out there. There are those who want support to practice pedophile acts, there are those who want support just not to be oppressed, there are those who want nothing, etc.

And finally, a MAP that wants support to abuse children, and another that just wants to be respected for being who he is, without wanting to break the law, are WELL different cases, and that is why they need to be differentiated. Furthermore, as I said, this mixture of the two in practice only causes confusion.

And here’s a controversial opinion from me. I personally am not in favor of supressing the speech of those who want contact with children. In my view, people can get together to ask for support for anything they want. That is, in my opinion they are allowed to exist, but that doesn’t mean that I support them.

My position is that beliefs on sexual contact with children are entirely irrelevant to MAP acceptance, it’s a youth rights issue rather than a MAP issue, I try to completely separate this from my MAP activism; this is one of the reasons why I don’t use NOMAP or contact labels. Whether or not you want to support someone’s positions on youth rights issues is completely valid, but the basic goals of MAP activism/liberation should apply to all MAPs. I think that the need to use “NOMAP” is fundamentally against those goals.

I confess that I find your logic a bit confusing, but regardless, I believe that your case would be a third group that would not fully fit into any of the two that I mentioned earlier. And honestly, and respectfully I have to say that I think you are wrong in the sense of “trying to force” a situation where all “MAPs” would have to be part of your group. Anyway, in my view your idea at minimum doesn’t work when put into practice.

You are wrong again. Knowing and believing are two different things. When you know what milk is, then you know what milk is and the definition.

When they (antis) hate MAPS, they DON’T KNOW what MAPS are. They have beliefs about pedophilia, not knowledge.

When you KNOW what pedophilia is, then you have seen the scientific details about pedohilia, so you KNOW the actual information and definition about pedophilia.

When you BELIEVE what pedophilia is, then you HAVE NOT seen any scientific details about pedophilia, so you DON’T know any scientific details about pedophilia, and actual information and definition about pedophilia.

BELIEF - an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one WITHOUT proof.

KNOWING - facts, information, and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject. ALSO THIS - awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation.

This is why they (antis) think pedophilia is attraction to anyone under the age of 18.
This is why I KNOW pedophilia is not any attraction to anyone under the age of 18, but attraction to prepubescent people.

This is what i said religion and politics dont have to be messed, and church and state must be separated. When lawmakes make laws, they have to FOCUS ON REAL SCIENCE, NOT ON BELIEFS, MYTHS, AND STEREOTYPES. When beliefs, and myths enter the law, human rights violation are 100% guaranteed.

The word “pedophilia” was invented in the early 20st century, after the puritans created the idea of women being sexless, devine creatures that dont need sex, because sex is bad, evil, dirty thing. They created this word to stigmatize innocent people. Over the years, the word was used as an excuse for dictatorship against group of people. The word was used as an excuse for murders in the name of Allah/God.

Don’t you realize that the only people who tweet “#SaveTheChildren” / “#SaveOurChildren”, are from evangelical groups? Everytie, when there is pedophilia scandal, the ONLY people who aggressively scream DEATH PENALTYYYYYYYYYYYY!!! on Twitter, are all religious?

They often use this:

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea” (Matthew 18:6)"

This only fuels the stereotype of pedophilia, because there is “he”, but never “she”, which suports the lie that only males can be pedophiles.

Things such as xenophobial, homophobia, discrimination against disabled people, are caused be religion. Isn’t religion saying that being disabled mean you are punished by god or possessed by demons?

Isn’t religion allowing you to murder your kids, if they don’t listen to the religious dogma you listen to?

I not only support separation of church and state, and restricting religion, i also support criminalization of religion. Because religion is not rational pehomenon that leads to violation of all kinds of human rights. All religion can be defended only by logical fallacies and lies.

Religion is used as an excuse for violation of human rights, financial scams, and more. For more inforation, you ca visit my non-popular petition and see all proofs against religion and violation of human rights, and financial scams, etc…

You can watch these videos from the ex director of American Atheists.

Here he explain why THEISM IS NOT RATIONAL

And here: GOD OF THE GAPS which te is last reason for the existence of religion

Inform yourself. It’s never good idea to use religion as an excuse to justifie bad things. All bad laws are based on stereotypical religious beliefs. Before religion came into existence, these anti-human, restricting laws didn’t exist.

Check the statistics of human rights violations. And you will see that the more religious the country is, the more human rights violations there are. See Africa, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia… women killings, child killings, honor killings, tortures, etc…

If they dont know the correct definition, then they shouldn’t make any comments. Why would anyone comment topics he/she can’t understand?

Explain me what i have to show you.

I know about the MAP Support Club. It was suspended from twitter. Stigma surrounding MAPS is harmful, so DEstigmatization is needed.

I never said i support child abuse. I even use “IMPORTANT NOTE: I DON’T SUPPORT CHILD ABUSE” at the end of every post i make.

This is true.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I DON’T SUPPORT CHILD ABUSE!

Being pro-map and pro-contact is two different things. When you are pro-map, you are focused on the human rights of MAPS.

I don’t know why JustLurking said “NO ONE IN HERE IS PRO MAP”, as if being pro-map mean you support child abuse.

Im pro-map, but i don’t support child abuse.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I DON’T SUPPORT CHILD ABUSE!